Advice on second hand Alfa (156/147)

[Xytech]

Hey everyone,
Good to see a forum like this exists!
I currently am a student and drive an Alfa 33 boxer manual - I've had a fantastic time driving the car in a spirited manner, but have also enjoyed good fuel economy!
Anyway after discussions with parents we've decided that its probably worth investing in a safer car - one with airbags, abs, the ebs (i think thats it?) and curtain airbags.
I've really enjoyed my experiences with the 33 and we have a good garage near us (Italian Job, Vic) so I want to get an Alfa!

It is tricky convincing them! But I think I am slowly winning them round.
My budget for purchase is max 18k, but around 15-16k would be preferable.

I've been mainly looking at the 156 & 147's, was looking at the GTV early on but decided that they are getting a bit old now/probably wouldn't have the safety features I need?

So I've kind of narrowed it down to 156/147, 2002+, and manual! (thats the tricky bit it seems) - this seems to just about fit my pricing criteria.
A couple of questions I have:
1. Have the safety features changed in the 156/147 much in the years since 2002? Will a car from that era onwards have the features I am looking for?
2. Are these cars safe? Bit worried about the 147 as it only got a 3/5 on the RACV new car ratings... couldn't find any detail on the 156, although the 159 did recieve 5/5 - would the 156 be drastically different to this?
3. Personal experiences with these cars? Looking specifically at reliability etc
4. What do all the different models mean? Ti, MY2002, etc, they are all a bit confusing for me?
5. Have there been any major face lifts/changes from say 2002-2004 to either of these cars?
6. Parents have been saying I should consider the selespeed - what is your experience with this and do you think it is an adequate replacement for a proper manual? how does the "feel" differ?
7. Any advice on how to offload the 33? Obviously would need to do this prior to buying a new car
8. Anything else I should be generally aware of? Recommended dealers perhaps?

Even if none of you can answer all these questions, any feedback or advice at all would be wonderful and much appreciated! Just even a general vibe on the cars, and any links or anything you can provide too would be great!

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

[Joe Garra]

welcome to the world of Alfa. We had a selespeed 156 - good car, but didn't like the selespeed. Now have a manual 159 (even my wife preferred the change from a selespeed to a manual). There are also numerous threads on the problems with selespeeds.  Get the newest manual 156 you can afford and you will be happy.

[Xytech]

Hi, thanks for the advice re: telespeed
I don't suppose you have any info re: safety ratings etc?
Thanks

[avim]

Have a chat to the guys at the Italian Job. They know these cars inside out

[alanm]

Hi Andrew

I have been thinking about replacing our family car with a 156 and have done a little bit of research over the last 6 months or so.
I have watched this forum, read local and international motoring writer reviews, second hand buyers guides, and talked to alfa specialist repairers.

Buying an 932 series alfa with Selespeed and a 4 cylinder engine is a bit of a minefield!

I love the cars and I will buy one but its definitely not going to be a Selespeed! The manual is a much better option from a maintenance point of view.
Of the 4 cylinder engines, the twin spark on the earlier model is the more reliable of the two. Good motor as far as I can gather, just keep checking the oil level because they commonly use a little. If the engine is starved of oil all hell can break loose! As for the JTS on the later models, one specialist I spoke to described it as crap (quote, unquote).

So buy a manual 147 or 156 twin spark and experience the joys of Alfa ownership without the grief, or do as I am going to do and buy the 156 V6 with the manual. If swapping gears isn't your thing buy the V6 with the semi automatic.

Alan

[Xytech]

Thanks for the advice Alan!
Definitely going to go for the manual it looks like then, would prefer that anyway - just limits the choice somewhat.
In your research, come across much safety statistics for either the 147 or 156? Would be much appreciated.
Also thanks for advice RE: engine
Cheers

EDIT: Specifically in regards to airbags, do you know if what year the curtain/side airbags were introduced? would the ones from 1999 have them?

[avim]

Side airbags came in the 2000 Model year update along with standard leather and a front centre armrest (deleted lumbar support & woodgrain trim) and I think curtain ones were added on the JTS models of 2002 onwards

[John Hanslow]

Safety seems to be a number one concern (and that is most important) so I recon you have a look at the site - http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/how_safe_is_my_car.php.

Do a bit of research on related topics and see how you go.  The 147 is like a 156 without a boot.  Decide what you want - realistically (not a rule though) the bigger the modern car is, the safer it is as the crumple zone is bigger - that boot can absorb a lot of enegy.  But it may come down to choice and features. 

Go and check out carsales, car point drive etc and check out a few cars.

Now generally:
There are plenty of the early 156 cars on the market. 
There were a few packages available over time to boost sales by having cars with extra feartures.
The Monza Model is popular and gets sports suspension, 16" wheels and leather sports seats.
The last twin spark package in 2002 was the Sport has the monza features, plus spoiler, tint and 17" wheels. I bought this one and was lucky to get it.

The JTS is an overall update and newer car with interior and mechanicals.  As you will see, there have been a few issues with the JTS that have come to light - like oil consumption, but use good oil and service it correctly and all should be ok.  Your choice.  But the Twin Spark is regarded as a better engine by many in the know.
The JTS ti is like a Twin Spark Sport, it has sports seats, wheels etc and a good look.

Do your research, check out the v6 as well, get the lowest milage car you can that fits your budget. It must be with service history and join the club for other benifits.  The club has reputable sponsors and Alfa Specialists and it is essential as people know, to get a pre purchase inspection by a said specialist before you buy.

That's it. Cheers.

[Xytech]

Hi John,
Thanks for the information. I just have a few questions following from what you said:
I went to the website and could find crash test info on the 147, but not the 156 - only the 159. Have also had this problem with the RACV site. Would the 156's results be drastically different to the 159? They seem fairly similar to me?
Also in regards to the V6: How does this engine fit in reliability wise, is it more like the twinspark or the JTS or completely different? I'm a little worried about fuel economy having never driven a v6 before - would it be significantly worse? (sorry for the "noob" question!)


Finally, I've come across a 156 MY2004 TI 2005 - have seen the MY come up a fair bit with MY2002, 2004, etc - what does this mean?
Also, it doesn't mention that it is a JTS - does it have a different engine? Is this the twin spark sport you were talking about - does this have the twin spark engine?

At the moment I think i'm leaning more towards the 156 - it seems to be a bit safer, the size doesn't hurt either and its still not a huge car.

Thanks again, this guidance is exceedingly useful and I am continuing my research. Before I buy I'll definetely get the car checked by the Italian Job and i'll go and speak to them before I buy for further advice anyway.

Cheers,

Andrew

edit: another query, am coming across threads like this http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=270.msg966#msg966 which recomend the JTS. Has further information/awareness about the JTS and the Twinspark's superiority come out since that thread (06) or is there a bit of division still? I'm pretty much wondering just how much weight to place on getting a twinspark over a JTS. Thanks.

[John Hanslow]

Interesting questions. 

My findindings are as follows:

Your correct about the website and yes the 156 is not there, only the crash result/ safety rating for the 147. 
The 159 is the follower model to the 156 and a different platform, engine and design.
A V6 does use more fuel but it is not that much more on the highway.  Around town with a lead foot and you will know about it.
A V6 is more robust & powerful and there is a strong following amoung Alfisti (Alfa enthusiasts) who really love the v6.  The twin spark 4 cylinder is the other.  All I can say is check one out at a dealer and see if you like it, or perhaps you will be more comfortable with a twin spark.  The V6 is usually a auto but a few manuals are around in approx year 2001 which are desirable and costs more to buy.
I understand MY stands for Model Year but I could be totally wrong on that, but if you ready the comments in the cars for sale you will definitely see a correlation there anyway.
From late 2002, the update was the JTS engine.
As I said, some people prefer the older but better pre 2003 Twin Spark.
By the way, all JTS models had the sports suspension as standard - from the pre 2003 cars ie. Monza springs.
Lots of opinion here and I only recommend doing the research.
By the way, I do not know if my 2002 Sport and 2004ti have identical springs. They are eibach reds and rather firm. 
If a bit firm go for a standard Monza or a plain JTS.  Or a the latest v6 auto.

Other people may have better ideas regarding the V6's etc so there yo go.

[alanm]

Hi again Andrew

Sorry can't shed any light on the safety credentials of the 156, I've looked and found very little.

In regards to the V6, the motor in the 156 is an evolution of a V6 that was designed 30 years or so ago.
It has been referred to by motoring luminaries as one of the greatest motors ever to make it into production.
I'm far from expert but it seems to have no fundamental design flaws. You don't read about common catastrophic failures.
Oh, and it looks and sounds nice too!!

Coming back to the 156 vs 147 comparison, Auto Italia Issue 138 has a 156 buyers guide, issue 150 a 147 buyers guide.
You can order back issues on the Auto Italia website.

Alan