159 Cold Start Problem

[Standards Advocate]

I have a 2006 159

First thing in the morning it always requires two tries to make it start. I have asked the local service people and they have informed me that this is normal and most 159's have this characteristic. Has anyone else seen this? Have you fixed it?

True, I accept that if this is the worst of it then it is not too bad. But what if it gets worse? What is causing it? Will it go from 2 tries to 3, or 4 or 5 or will it prematurely stress an expensive componant that will fail just outside of warranty? Has been doing this since at least 25,000kms. Currently at 40,000kms.

Please let me know if you have experience with this as the local service people say it is something I need to live with.

[Standards Advocate]

I realised I have not provided enough info. My vehicle is a 2.2 JTS 2006 159

[alfagtv100 (Biggus)]

Are you pushing the button briefly, or holding it for 1-2 seconds?
I always keep it pressed until the engine fires (1-2 seconds) and it starts first time, every time.
I understand this has been changed in the MY09 version of the 159.  You now only need to briefly press the button to start the car.
Cheers,
Marco.

[Doug Gould]

Have you tried the Italian tune-up? These cars run better when they see 5,000 rpm regularly. However, I don't think the Alfa engine calibration is very good at start-up. Both my 159 & my wife's Brera frequently "stumble" in the first minute or so after starting (ie getting out of the drive).

Doug

[alfagtv100 (Biggus)]

Have you tried the Italian tune-up? These cars run better when they see 5,000 rpm regularly. However, I don't think the Alfa engine calibration is very good at start-up. Both my 159 & my wife's Brera frequently "stumble" in the first minute or so after starting (ie getting out of the drive).

Doug

Mine does the same thing.  My understanding is they are programmed with a 'Safe Mode', which limits engine revs when the engine is cold.  It takes a (very slow) 200m before this clears on my car.  If I allow the car to idle for a minute or two, it doesn't happen.

Cheers,
marco.

[NigelC]

I also have a 2006 159 2.2 jts and yes it always takes two goes on really cold mornings.  It's an Alfa thing and that's why we love them.  I also have a '79 GTV so each time when I start it I need to balance choke and throttle, pray to whichever God is on duty and hold my tongue in a very special way ... but it reminds me how good my 159 is.

[DaveB]

We have a 2.2 Brera (and 2x 75's) and have had a few nights below zero.
One morning recently, for the first time we saw the "Possible ice on road warning" - must have been cold in the garage that night.
Anyway, my wife drove it to work, and at 7pm that night - also a frosty night - it refused to start.

I went to her rescue in the trusty 75 and after over an hour (while I was waiting for the truck organised by Alfa assist) got it started.
Cranked with the pedal flat to the floor & perservered.  evenntually it started / stopped a few times & then started & ran.

So, we always have two tries to start in the AM.
Nasty Bumping (safe mode eh?  thx Marco) often when it does start unless I've had it out for a good run aka tune-up.
And the alarm sometimes sounds (for a very short time) when its locked in the garage late at night or dawn - i put this down to temp / humidity changing?

Anyway, its off for another look by the dealer   
Concerned about double wear on the starter motor, will have plugs & battery replaced.
I'm thinking the batterys going (its a demonstrator 2007 build) or sparkplugs / injectors fouled (runs very well)

Possibly antitheft caused by frozen alarm system stopped the engine starting ?  Cant have a no-go !!
Will have to take the 75 skiing - cant risk a no-start at 8pm the day we leave, even tho it'll be a 1500 km round trip drive.

Has anyone cured the double start then bumping problem?

DaveB

[Standards Advocate]

Thanks for the responses.

I wanted to wait a while to hear people's thoughts.

In response to alfagtv100, I hold the button for a few seconds and the engine cranks without ignition. I then let go of the button and then restart and it seems to start instantly the second time. If I am too fast on the first press of the button then it still starts instantly on the second try.

In response to safe mode, which limits revs when cold, I do not understand why this would impact start-up which would happen easily below 3000 RPM.

I have noticed over the last few weeks with temperature dropping to single digits above zero that the vehicle does respond sluggishly for a few hundred meters - but again, this happens accross the rev range.

In response to NigelC, While I can appreciate that you think of this double start fiasco as a quirky feature of a European car with a legacy it seems to me that this is the "canary in the coal mine" of a possible future problem for people who just wanted a good looking, well performing vehicle.

In summary I foolishly spent a significantly larger sum on a vehicle that looks better than a Toyota but I don't feel that my car manages to perform more reliably than one. To rub salt in the wound, my local service team seem to believe that I am simply another complaining customer. Perhaps I am - but then, I wouldn't be complaining if my car would start like a post 1980's car should.

[DaveB]

OK, following up on my post above, we drove the Brera down & back to visit Thomson Alfa - 1000 km round trip (and successfully steered around the huge wombat in the fog on the way home)

Number 3 & 4 plugs fouled, computer diagnostics showed injectors OK, and 2 no-start events.  Battery OK .

Dealer lent us a 159 turbo diesel wagon while Brera was serviced - they took their time and got it right, possibly due to our AlfaService callout.
Bumping was misfiring (I think on the wasted spark stroke) in 3 & 4, all plugs were cleaned.  No charges at all.   

Solution - warm the car up before the 2 minute trip beween work & home. - good job for the lad in the AM, less convenient for the wife in PM.

So now, after a week of trying the warmup routine, the Brera starts first time every time, & does not go bump in the dawn. _ Cured_

Happy customers (with a far better car than any Toy*t*) 

[Doug Gould]

Its worth noting that the button start becoming common accross many cars has a lot to do with emissions standards. The button triggers an electronically contolled start sequence. Push it soft, hard short or long makes no difference. If there is a cold start schedule (which is likely), then I haven't been cold enough to experience it. Once again it might have a lot to do with emmissions contol for Euro 4 or whatever they are up to. There is a fair chance the shopping trolleys that Standards Advocate is used to are a level behind the Euro emissions spec of the European cars. All of this behavior is quite common for modern European cars.

Doug

[flighty]

The wife's Skoda Roomster is also sluggish (dead) immediately after starting, and I had a Honda Civic as a loan car for a couple of weeks and that needed two pushes of the start button on cold mornings as well. You should try starting a 68 Spider on a cold damp Irish morning - I'd be thrilled if it took less than 5 goes!!

One or two goes doesn't matter, nor does sluggish EURO 4 running to warm up - press it twice and then enjoy!