Alfetta air con total rebuild

[MD]

As I mentioned in another topic, here is my overview of a custom made air conditioner system installation for a Sportiva II. The heart of the unit is an evaporator unit that BLOWS the air over the coils instead of drawing as in the Alfa unit. This achieves a much quieter operation and is much more efficient. The model of evap unit is a Formula King, 12V, Jayair P/N EV2208. Produces 18,000 BTU's, & 310 F3/min air flow. Enough to cool a mini bus. This unit only produces cooling . If you need to cool and heat a unit like the EV2213 would do but it is only rated at 12,000BTU

This is supplemented by an all new condenser unit as big as you can fit, new drier, new rotary compressor, new gas lines, belts and custom mounting rack in the engine bay.

This is NOT a a quick fix for your poorly performing existing system. That is because it is a total rebuild of it using materials that will do the job under Oz climate conditions. So it is only meant to illustrate a point that if you are serious about fixing the air con in you Alfetta or GTV, be prepared for some serious work or at least get ready to part with a couple of grand and pay someone else to do the job.

In addition to fitting all new hardware, custom ductwork was made to more effectively distribute air over your face instead of giving you frozen knee caps. All ducting was insulated and fitted behind the dash. New eyeball outlet sockets were also installed and the original vents outlets on the console permanently sealed off.

A key feature of the hardware in the engine bay is the fabrication of a racking system for the rotary compressor and alternator fitted with a Toyota style belt tensioner(brilliant). As an aside, this vehicle was also fitted with a power steering conversion from a 90 at the time which explains the extra belts and pulleys ( I hope.)

This vehicle is used in the subtropics so a need for a heater is almost irrelevant and hence the elective to use the cooling evap unit only instead of a combo.

The approach taken here was to retain as much of the original look as possible in the cabin and for the most part that has been achieved. The purists will off course will not agree but you can't please 'em all..

[MD]

Part 2 follows due to  photo posting limitations.

These are pics of the engine bay hardware.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

As an aside, this vehicle was also fitted with a power steering conversion from a 90 at the time which explains the extra belts and pulleys ( I hope.)

Good to see 90s are useful for something then.

Excellent mod there MD.  I think I might have been inspired...

[MD]

Sure 90's are great. Just piss off all the eletronics, convert the front headlights into more sporting looking round suckers  and you've got a great 2.5 litre Alfetta, hahhaa.

On a more intelligent note, the 75/90 power racks are not a bad thing around town for parking and reasonable road feel. Good for keeping wives on the right side the Alfa ownership mania.(if you get my drift).

[alfagtv58]

On a more intelligent note, the 75/90 power racks are not a bad thing around town for parking and reasonable road feel. Good for keeping wives on the right side the Alfa ownership mania.(if you get my drift).

I do get your drift, but I find it easier to keep 'er well away from the Alfas....then everyone is happy.  I tried it back when I had the 75, I left it with her when I went to Sydney for a few days.....the first day, plugs fouled up and flattened the battery trying to start it!

[NigelC]

I don't think my ex ever really understood my obsession with Alfas ... funny though, they both share the same throaty roar. 

[k76]

Well done MD!


Since we're drifting away from the topic anyway:

I've got the stock aircon in my sportiva II, and I was wondering how many of my precious few kW it's stealing. Does it steal them all the time, or just when I turn it on? It is a fairly hefty sized compressor, not all that effective at cooling...



Kris

[MD]

Kris,

No problem, we are on topic as far as I can see..

I assume you have an original reciprocating piston compressor thats hanging off the lhs of the motor like an oversized cancer growth. Yes they work. Not as efficient as the rotory units that come very compact these days and save heap of engine bay room.

To answer you specific question..no it shouldn't be using power unless the system is fully gas charged and the system is switched on for running. That is because an electric clutch cuts the drive to the pulley when the compressor is not required to run. The compressor pulley still runs around with the belts as it must but it is just free wheeling.

When I get a chance I will sum up from my point of view why the 116 air con system will never work well enough for Australian conditions.

NigelC,

...obsession with Alfas-what you sleep in your Alfa too. !! Thought I was the only one..

Phil,

I gotta come clean. I did this conversion for the Missuz. It was her car..she loved it but now drives an auto 75 and loves it more...

[Al Campbell]

MD,

The finished item looks good. Purists may not like it, but it doesn't look out of place at all. Nice job.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the 116 A/C. I'm thinking a new evaporator in a new shroud if needed, maybe replace the whole HVAC part under the instruments with something from another car. I'm not happy with the blower. New compressor obviously. Undecided about the Condenser. I know it doesn't get that hot here in Melbourne, but driving the GTV6 in summer I get roasted. This is easily the damned hottest car I've ever had and I'm not talking performance.

Nigel,

I don't get the throaty roar, but sometimes they're both silent, cold & don't respond to anything.

AL.

[NigelC]

I find that choke works!

[MD]

I find that choke works!

Hahhaa.
Cripes. I am not touchin that. I get into enough hot water on my own with my style of posting. Im still pulling out Bazzukka amo out of my butt from my posts a few weeks back.  Calling a spade a shovel does have its price.

Moving on..

A little preface. Just so we all understand what the terminology means. Here is a bit of clarification: (All you high tech. types go to point 1)

The evaporator is in the fanbox assembly under the dash.
The condensor is the thing infront of the radiator core and looks like a second radiator.
The compressor lives in the engine bay and is driven by a belt from the main pulley . It can be a round cylinder like  unit mounted horizonatally or a vertically mounted unit that is a lot more "shoe box" like in shape.
The drier is a smallish cylinder with a glass viewer that is connected into the refrigerant line

Here's a summary any 116 owner will relate to in terms of what is wrong with the air con system in these cars:-

1 Noise. The fans are excessively noisey
2 Poor air speed.
3 Poor air distribution
4 Insufficient chill produced to meet heat load
5 Reciprocating piston compressor prone to leaks
6 R12a gas used originally and cannot be replaced with same type.
7 R134a replacement refrigerant ideally requires new seals and lines as it operates at higher pressures.
8 The evaporator size is too small for heat load.
9 The fans inside the fan box draw the air through the evap. unit inside the box and push it out around your  knees. By the time it reaches your face, it is already not cool enough. Because the fans draw instead of   push, the air path takes the path ot least resistance and does not fully utilise the available surface area for heat scrubbing. Because the fans are positioned just behind the air registers, they are virtually impossible to noise attenuate. In summary, bad heat srubbing around evap unit and noisey fans.
10 There is no "wrap around" cold air supply from the dashboard like in modern cars. Only from the fan box itself. The eyeball vents on the extremities of the dashboard are for fresh air supply only. When the fresh air is blowing over a bonnet you can fry eggs on, its just more hot air in the cabin.
11 Heat load in the 116 cars comes from the typical sources that all cars have save for a few quirks:-

The GTV has a massive glass area to act like a glass house.
The exhaust systems are not shielded and radiate huge amounts of heat up through the floor and tunnel.
The two chassis rails that are inside the engine bay and come up at a 45*angle from the bottom rail and finish up at the top of the inner guard and join the firewall are heat collectors that conduct heat into the cabin via the 'fresh air" ducts. (factory goof up) They need to be filled with expandable foam.

The condesor is undersized for Oz conditions and is also of a redundant type of construction.

I hope that the above list gives you some insight as to why your air con will never work as well as contemporay air con systems in newer cars do UNLESS you make drastic changes to the WHOLE system. Tinkering around the edges is fine if you live in Hobart but if you live in Cairns well, you will need to go the whole 9 yards.

Finally, a safety tip.

There are cowboys out there refilling air con systems on the cheap using Butane as the refrigerant gas that is compatible with the old R12a systems. That is true and yes it does work. So what's the problem? Well the problem is that you are driving a time bomb. The next time the Butane leaks from your old system inside your closed cabin and you get in the car to start it up and a gas ignition source creates a spark to ignite the gas, you could be experiencing a certain chill but it wont be from the air con...

[redalfaracing]

being a fridge mechanic by trade i feel qualified to comment.

7 R134a replacement refrigerant ideally requires new seals and lines as it operates at higher pressures.

not strictly correct, the reason that seals, hoses etc need to be replaced is because r134a requires a synthetic oil so it doesn't wax in the system. The polyol oil will attack the rubber used in old r12 systems

There are cowboys out there refilling air con systems on the cheap using Butane as the refrigerant gas that is compatible with the old R12a systems.

There are some comercial refrigerants available that are propane based. True they are flamable. But they are not toxic! There is some evidence that supports the theory that some car accidents are caused by leaking r134a systems. Even small concentrations of r134a present in the cabin of a motor car can lead to impaired judgement and even loss of conciousness. A lung full of the stuff will lead to certain hospitalisation with lung damage. Whilst r134a has a zero ozone depleting potential, it is a much more potent greenhouse gas by a factor of a thousand or so. So do not release to the atmosphere ( legislated) We are required to treat synthetic refrigerants the same as the older cfc's.

As a side note. Propane based refrigerants are much more efficient than the r134a based gasses, and as for being a time bomb, what is more explosive, 600 grams of propane or 70 litres of premium unleaded?

[MD]

Appreciate the input. The more factual the better. Keeps us all informed which is great.

In essence the point of raising this topic was to illustrate the frustration of getting a 116 air conditoner to perform well in an Australia wide setting which I am saying is impossible given its design if you have expectations that match contemporary motor vehichle air conditioning systems.

I am also aware of very hazzardous chemicals used in commercial and industrial refrigeration such as ammonia.

My point with Butane in everyday cars is that it can cause an explosion and given legal alternatives, it should never be used. I  very much doubt that there would be any insurance compensation following such an occurence. Perhaps somebody in the insurance game reading this might chime in..

[derek1.08]

extra cool alfa thats for sure, rotary comp smooth as
I have used one of the straight swap hydrocarbon mix alternatives and when charged correctly achieved two degree celsius lower air temp off the evaporator in my 116 sedan with the 2 cylinder reciprocating compessor. My air cond worked well at speed but bumper to bumper on a hot day it genuinely pays to have the added extra thermo fan.
I think that flame retardents form a part of the mix in the legitimate replacement gases that use flammable hydrocarbon gasses and that the gas does not support flame on rapid release. tell me if I'm wrong. I think also that low flammability and low toxicity are key to registering your own refrigerant gas.

Anyone with interest of using straight butane or propane in a car air conditioning system should consider in a crash situation, the pressurised condensor is right up front of vehicle surrounded by electrics just waiting to set the rest of the car or cars on fire. You should have a word with your insurance rep and I'm sure he or she would agree you need not pay insurance because in the event of a claim you are already not covered. However potential claims against you may be worth a thought. but hey why just butane or propane, what about lpg or lng methane etcetera

For everyone else, there is a phone number advertised on tv.

[Al Campbell]

Thanks for that guys, all good stuff. This is one of the values of forums like these; spreading knowledge and experience (feel warm & fuzzy?)

My car (which came from the ACT) had been converted to R134a with new lines and drier, unfortunately they hadn't bothered to replace the compressor or fix the broken shroud around the evaporator, which made any these changes pointless. It was re-gassed in 2006, and pressure switch and sight glass on drier indicate it hasn't all leaked out, but put you finger on the evaporator (that's how much of the shroud is missing) and it's at ambient, so I guess that illustrates how bad the old York compressor is. I find it hard to believe they would've replaced the seals in the York, instead of throwing it away. Oh and just about every opening in the firewall is missing grommets or other seals letting hot, fume laden air into the cabin. So my cooling system is currently 2 by 100.

With the leaking fire wall, I use the fan all the time, so I know what you mean about the noise.

I think that in the later 116 cars with the tropic-air system, the 2nd evaporator fed into the side eye-ball vents with extra fans in the ducts (or maybe that was overseas somewhere).

O.K. I'm not going to be disheartened though.

Thanks,
Al the Hot.