My 84 GTV 2L EV Project

[TheConverted]

Brad, you scored yourself a bargain, I would buy one at $15, but atm $70+ delivered on ebay, Im too tight to pay that much.

Regarding the design of the prop shaft, I was referring to bad design from removal point of view. I have removed many tailshafts from many different makes of cars that were simple and easy to understand, and remove, but I do understand in terms of functionality, its a clever design, vibration free motoring.

[Darryl]

You don't seem to be hearing what people are saying. There is a method. If you follow it it is simple. You didn't. That isn't a bad design for removal...

As to buying the Haynes manual - a quick check shows 2 international sellers able to deliver to you for $25 AUD or so inc postage... I'd snap one up - they seem to be an appreciating asset (more so than the subject vehicle) - if you don't get it too dirty it should cost you nothing.... I think I'll frame mine :-)

[TheConverted]

Thanks for the heads up on the repair manual, I am tracking one at the moment on ebay, Im sure it will come usefull when I tackle the heater core exchange.

OK, I wont mention another word about the prop-shaft any more.....

Some pics of the dirty engine bay and after degreasing it.

before;





and after;

[Nikola]

So,how is the work going with Your electric Alfa???

[TheConverted]

G'day Nikola, Im in the process of testing a large DC motor for suitability. It has a couple of brushes broken and need to do a test to see which way it spins.

Attached is a picture of it in parts. It is an old motor, weighs about 60-70kg, looks like its up to the job to move the GTV at good speed. As can be seen, not many parts to a DC Electric motor.

[MD]

.....looks like its up to the job....

What is its rated power? That should signal to you whether it will or wont do the job allowing for transmission losses.

[TheConverted]

Choderboy - my understanding was the same as yours, but according to the DC motor experts on EV forum, the Forklift Dc motors are    designed to spin only one way, regardless of the polarity of the voltage. Its not a series wound Dc motor. I intend to put it back together and do a test of it, fingers crossed, it will spin the right way. Now, the GTV 2L spins anti-clockwise, right?

MD - I dont know its rating, its an old motor of substantial size , but most forklift DC motors are rated up to 48volts, but generallly can be over volted my atleast 3 - 4 fold for short periods. Again the gurus from the EV forum beleive that its more than capable, according to size of the brushes and the commutator.

[MD]

Most motors including serious electric motors have a horsepower or kilowatt power rating. Thats what I am talking about. Don't care if it's 48 or 480 volts, What's the power rating?

To move the mass of the GTV, you will need kilowatts for a start...

[TheConverted]

MD - Unfortunately there are no markings on it to indicate its power rating.

On an EV, the kilowatts come from the batteries, more the better, and not the motor.
Generally the power rating of a DC motor is the continuous rating,and not the peak rating. Which is what the motor can handle for certain time periods. Inbetween the batteries and the motor is a controller, which controllers the voltage to the motor in relation to he throttle pedal.

[TheConverted]

Thanks for that Choderboy. I've put the motor back together and hope to do a test of this motor on Monday to see which way it spins.

From the information I am getting, its more about the batteries and motor controller that will determine how well the GTV will move. With the right combination, I am aiming for similar performance as the 2L that was in it.

[MD]

On an EV, the kilowatts come from the batteries, more the better, and not the motor.

That's "Y" generation talk for skewing the facts. The correct name for a battery is an accummulator because it a storage system to accummulate more energy by the addition or more cells that produce the energy. Sure, in various combinations there can be killowatts of energy stored.

The crux of the matter is that the batteries only provide the wattage but its the motor that DELIVERS the wattage that does the actual work. This point appears to be glossed over by you.

As for the controller, well it's no different than to claim that the ECU in a petrol injected car does the work. Both these systems are subserviant to the motor that does the actual work.

Calculating Horsepower:

Electrical power is rated in horsepower or watts. A horsepower is a unit of power equal to 746 watts or 33,0000 lb-ft per minute (550 lb-ft per second). A watt is a unit of measure equal to the power produced by a current of 1 amp across the potential difference of 1 volt. It is 1/746 of 1 horsepower. The watt is the base unit of electrical power. Motor power is rated in horsepower and watts.
Horsepower is used to measure the energy produced by an electric motor while doing work.

To calculate the horsepower of a motor when current and efficiency, and voltage are known, apply this formula:

HP = V x I x Eff
        746

HP = horsepower
V    = voltage
I     = curent (amps)
Eff. = efficiency

Here is a link that you may find useful; http://www.elec-toolbox.com/Formulas/Motor/mtrform.htm

[kartone]

Will you be using a digital or analogue controller ?

[TheConverted]

The crux of the matter is that the batteries only provide the wattage but its the motor that DELIVERS the wattage that does the actual work. This point appears to be glossed over by you.

MD;
I think what you maybe getting at, is that the motor delivers the Torque to the wheels, larger the DC motor more torque is generated from the available power, kilowatts ( or HP, which ever units one wishes to use) to the wheels, or in this case to the transaxle and then the wheels. This is similar to a crankshaft of an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine). Of course the field windings in the DC motor need to be able to handle the large amps that will go through it when large power is needed.

This is the reason why I am considering this motor, its 10" in diameter, which makes it  a very decent size. Many EV conversion are done with 7", 8" and now 9" DC motors (and yes, there are even bigger motors, 11" and 13", but obviously weigh more), but are designed  to some degree for the EV market. However, being an older DC motor, its efficiency maybe some what lacking compare to a more modern and dedicated DC motor. This is an unknown, and maybe an expensive gamble on my behalf, due cost of making an adaptor plate and motor coupler.

Oh! Thanks  for the link, I do have some electrical and electronic theory understanding.

kartone;
Regarding the controller, Im considering a Zilla,

http://cafeelectric.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

Proven and tested on the track by, White Zombie, however, not cheap. There seems to be other controllers coming on to the market , so cost are coming down.
Most DC controllers are PWM, which basically turns the voltage on an doff depending the how much throttle is applied,  and the motor sees an average voltage from the  battery pack in proportion to the throttle position.  All have some form of microprocessor control and I'd imagine analog on the power side of the controller, but im no expert.

[Mike]

A mate of mine is doing this to a Volvo, a fitting end to a Volvo's life :-).  In an Alfa it just seems sad to me.  From what I have seen of elec cars, they tend to have a crap load of torque, so your driveshaft may take a beating.  How will you go with the centerline of ths shaft?  Will it set the motor too low in the engine bay?  Where are the batteries going?  In the boot?  by by 50/50 weight distribution.  Could you have just bought a Hyundi, they are shit from the start :-)?

Comments are meant partly in jest.  If you get it to work with 50/50 weight distribution (watch out for cracking struts if you hang too much in the front battery wise) and equivalent power to weight, I'll take my hat off to you, otherwise, you've trashed a perfectly good Alfa.

[MD]

Following the theme of is it the right car choice to start with, here's what I would have started with instead..