5 point harness

[Mat Francis]

As part of the mild upgrades being performed to the alfetta at the moment i want to put in the good seat. As such, i need a harness.

Firstly, does anybody have an old expired one lying around they want to sell me? and am i allowed to do this, or does it need to be in date still, given that i am only going to be running club sprints and the like.

Next, i was planning on using the rear seat belt holes, as i don't plan on putting the back seat back in. Any issues with this? The other option was going to be make up appropriate plates and attach it to the rear parcel shelf, but to my limited knowledge i see the proper seat belt holes as being the better option? (until i put a cage in obviously).

Lastly, any thoughts on where i should be buying from if i can't get one second hand? With budget being the theme for this car i'm tempted by the stuff on ebay, but i don't really know what i'm looking for. ie would they be safe enough?

Educate me!

[dehne]

hey matt my harness is bolted into the rear belt holes and the other question is is a 4point harness ok as thats what i run and they bolt on to ur existing holes and for the seats i brought mine new on ebay for $150 postage was about $30 if thats any help i brought my harness for $180 new for the pair and ive had noprobs with them

[dehne]

sorry to inform you "choder" but 1st think is you do not know what harness/seats i brought and the 2nd is how would you know what quality they are and 3rd is they meet all the cams approvals so to me and others who own them maybe you get a bit of solid prof that they are "shit" before you go mouthing off about them ok

[dehne]

DO NOT buy a SHIT quality seat, or a SHIT quality harness. gee i wonder where that was directed and im sure if items are cams approved and/or meet recomended standards they have to go through testing other wise maybe we could fit a deck chair in and a couple of jockey straps to hold us in

[k76]

I'll try to bring this back on thread.

I recently fitted a 4 point harness in my alfetta. For the lower mounts I just replaced eyebolts for the standard items. For the rear mounts, it is my view that the rear seatbelt mounts are too low, and will/may compress your spine in an accident. For what it's worth I think it's unlikely that any FIA approved harness is going to rip before your body, but even the most expensive harness can cause all kinds of damage even in a fairly mild crash if the geometry isn't right.
I think somewhere just below the parcel shelf is ideal, but without a harness bar you need to compromise. I can try to get you a photo tonight, but I basically fitted my two eyebolts to the front face of the rear seatback, as close to the parcelshelf as possible. I picked up a 90degree angle bit made from 3mm steel from Bunnings, which I trimmed to suit the pressing on the parcelshelf, and welded nuts to it. This then bolts into the seatback and the parcelshelf. I can confidently say this setup is way stronger than my body!

Sounds more complicated than it is, I did the whole thing in an hour and it cost me $7 or so.


Kris

[Mat Francis]

Thank you all for your input. I'll add a bit more to better explain.

I have a Cobra seat made from fiberglass/ kevlar. I don't know exactly what it's worth but i wouldn't think cheap, and i am happy that it will hold up pretty well should the worst happen.

Next, Auto sport is/was the one that is on Bayswate Road? Shame if it closed, that bloke was real nice. I'll have a look for it anyway.

I was also thinking i might just accept i'm not gonna drive the car for a bit longer and put a half cage in it. Cost me money and track time, but i can't make a good argument with myself as to why it is a bad idea, all things being considered.

Kris, if you are able to take a photo or two it would be hugely appreciated.

Here is the seat i plan to use.

Again, thank you all for the input. All good food for thought. 

[k76]

Ok, below is a picture of my rear seatbelt mount. You probably have to look at your parcelshelf to make sense of it, but basically the nuts with the poor weldjob holds the seatbelt eyebolts, while the other two bolts attaches to the parcelshelf. There is a pressing on the parcelshelf that I had to cut the bracket to fit inside. This leads to one point being stronger than the other, but I think there is plenty of meat around both of them. You can see the child seat point, and also the stud for the rear seat at the top (brown). The eyebolts are normally hidden beneath the seatback, I just take out the rear seat for the track.


Kris

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Thank you all for your input. I'll add a bit more to better explain.

I have a Cobra seat made from fiberglass/ kevlar. I don't know exactly what it's worth but i wouldn't think cheap, and i am happy that it will hold up pretty well should the worst happen.

Next, Auto sport is/was the one that is on Bayswate Road? Shame if it closed, that bloke was real nice. I'll have a look for it anyway.

I was also thinking i might just accept i'm not gonna drive the car for a bit longer and put a half cage in it. Cost me money and track time, but i can't make a good argument with myself as to why it is a bad idea, all things being considered.

Kris, if you are able to take a photo or two it would be hugely appreciated.

Here is the seat i plan to use.

Again, thank you all for the input. All good food for thought. 

If its going to be mostly a track car, putting the cage in makes a huge amount of sense.  Not only do you get a harness bar to solve that problem, you also gain some stiffness in the body, and protection in case of repeating a certain incident you may or may not have had at Sandown.    Mark at Eastern Race Fabrication (over the road from Monza Motors) should be able to help you out, and advise on options which comply to CAMS standards...  You may also be able to build a half cage in the car, with a view to extending it into a full cage at a later date.

Cobra seats are of fairly decent quality, and should be fine.

As far as the rear mounts go for the harness, depending on how high you have your seat, the existing rear seatbelt holes with eye bolts may be acceptable, although not ideal.  Check page 6-18 of your 2009 CAMS manual for a diagram of the maximum allowable angles.  On the next page is also a diagram of the minimum allowable dimensions for reinforcing plates (for example underfloor with crutch straps, or if you decide to go for the parcel shelf relocation).

[k76]

Good point about the seat height. I've got a standard seat, plus a long torso. I also sit quite upright to get the wheel at the right distance, so consequently my shoulders end up quite high.

[Mat Francis]

Good work with the picture- all makes sense. About to go find the CAMS manual and have a look/measure. Then i'll go check the bank account, realise i don't have enough money for a cage right now and put the whole thing off for another month or two 

[Southern75]

Just looking at the photo,

Whilst you have edeavoured to to the right thing and in one way meets the cams requirements, in another lesser specified requirement but nonetheless important you have minimum requirements for bracing around harness mounting holes.

Such a bracing setup if i were scrutineering a car (which i do) would make me want to search for a cams manual and a measuring device of some sort.

You can buy FIA specified bracing plates for about 7-8 buck from rev racegear or one of the other suppliers that obviously meet these standards.
In fact the CAMS manual specifies that (schedule I 2 (b) ) where a safety harness is affixed to an un-reinforced section of the body shell, each attachment point shall be reinforced by the use of a plate not less that 75mm x 50mm x 3mm thick as per drawing 1-4;

In relation to earlier posts, there are a number of quality approved harnesses that are manufactured in Asia that have been subbmitted to the FIA for testing which the FIA have approved (check their website if you don't believe me) that are 6 point and come with eyebolts, which can be purchased for around about the $200 mark making a WILLANS,SPARCO, SABELT, MOMO, Schroth, Klippan a fairly luxurious option.

As for a seat, just buy one that is approved, comfortable and not too big, a seat must be well fitting and not allow the driver to freely move.

[k76]

I am aware of that requirement Matthew, but I think I comply with the spirit of it. My plate is 3mm, and its total area is bigger than 2 75x50 plates. According to CAMS I can even get away with a single 75x50 plate. If I wanted to use the standard cams plates I would have to fit them in a flat section of the seatback with very little inherent strength. CAMS may be ok with that, but I'm not. Where I have placed my bracket there is effectively a beam, and the geometry is very strong even without my bracket. So I didn't do it because it was cheap or simple, but because it was the best way to do it short of reinforcing the whole seatback or getting a harness bar. Hopefully it won't be too much longer before my "real" track car is finished, that will have a cage with harness bar.

Kris

[Southern75]

Yeah cams require one plate point of the harness if you read it correctly.

Trust me if you get a picky scrutineer they will pick it up.