Suggestions on cooling system improvements?

[tjb0274]

One of the jobs on my list for this year is to improve the engine cooling in the Ricciardi.

It tends to get warm in traffic, and 6 or 7 laps on the track gets it much hotter than I'd like, even with an auxilliary fan switched on.

Rough plan is to remove the standard fan completely, and replace the auxilliary fan with a proper modern thermostatically controlled unit. At the minimum I hope to get the radiator checked and re-cored, but I've been wondering about an aluminium unit, both for improved cooling and for weight reduction. Finally I think the ducting/blocking can be improved - currently I suspect a lot of air is getting past the radiator on either side. Another thought is to add an oil cooler, but with the tiny grille area it would probably have to go in front of the radiator, effectively reducing water cooling in exchange for some oil cooling.

Does anyone have recommendations about a good modern replacement fan unit that will fit a 105, and/or thoughts on oil coolers, and the aluminium radiator idea?  I know Alfaholics and others sell GTA replica radiators, but they cost a bomb, and I was thinking it might be cheaper to get one made locally using the old radiator as a pattern?

[alfagtv58]

My guess is that getting your existing radiator reconditioned with an extra core would go a long way to having it solved.  But cost wise, an aluminium replacement might be better.  In my car I had to retain the copper unit (regulations exclude aluminium) so getting an additional core in the existing one is what I did, but it wasnt cheap compared to an 'off the shelf' aluminium unit.  I have run it for 45 odd minutes in the 6 hour with no overheating issues.  But my car isnt registered, so I don't sit in traffic, I'll leave the thermo advice for others to chip in.

Hugh @ Monza has a local guy he uses for both options (re-core existing and aluminium).

[colcol]

I remember when the original VB Commodore came out, it was one of the first local cars to have ducting, because it increased cooling by up to 20%, that figure could be applied to your car Tim, also, make sure the radiator cap is correct and working, the higher the pressure, the more effecient and the higher the boiling point, check the thermostat for correct installation and temperature range and thats its working correctly, also make sure you have the correct ratio of coolant and its the correct type for your car, after all these relatively cheap fixes, go down the new radiator path, Colin.

[tjb0274]

Thanks guys - some good points.

I replaced the termostat last year, and the coolant is correct. I will double check the cap, though.

[McAnnik]

  Tim, I guess you have heeded the advice from the previous posters,I have a little to add! Retarded ignition can cause a problem or two regarding overheating but of course that has been checked and is spot on, right? Dont believe the timing marks on the pulley unless you are sure the pulley should be where it is supposed to be [in relation to everything else!],Broken keys in keyway slots can cause problems that take weeks to find.It has been known to happen on the best of machinery,always at the wrong time! And as you are on the path of auxilary fan induced cooling, I agree with this  approach as long as your battery is up to scratch, or you dont mind running an alternator under racing duress. As a matter of interest, if you want to gain a couple or three of free!!! BHP! it seems an old trick learnt by the hoon rodders in "The States" yonks ago was to remove the standard fitted plastic fan as this was as good as gaining about [they said] 7 BHP at 6000 rpm! but you have to run aux cooling of course.It was effective when I raced in the 70's on Victorian Speedway circuits but this was only for 10 lap sprints,my class was limited to 1000cc capacity and allowed everything except supercharging,needless to say,everything we raced was highly strung and on the limit of self destruction,no restrictions on the make of engine used.It depended on the size of your wallet of course,how much H/P you could afford to buy [what's changed!] At least, I did all my own tuning and did win a few  sprints from time to time and very proud of the fact that I could clean up some of the monied competitors.Racing on mud sometimes can sort out the posuers from the guys who really get into it.!!!!   

[colcol]

Fill the car with the type of petrol you will always be running, and then time the car as to specs, then go for a drive, labour the car in top gear and drive up a hill and listen for pinging, that is the noise of marbles rattling around in your engine, if it doesn't ping advance the timing 2 degrees and go for a drive and check for pinging, when you advance the timing, it is not neccessary to use a timing light, just move the distributor slightly and the engine will slightly speed up, keep advancing the timing until it slightly pings under load, this is about where you want your timing, advantages include, engine will run cooler, better fuel consumption, more usable torque and engine power, just make sure it only slightly pings under load, Colin.

[tjb0274]

Thanks for the further suggestions guys 

I'm fairly confident the advance is fine - the car has computer controlled ignition these days, and the TDC mark has been checked and calibrated. I'm using a curve based on the standard Bosch dizzie curve, with some tweaks here and there as a result of a fair bit of testing using a similar technique to Col's suggestions. Max total advance is currently 43 degrees (which some believe is too high, but it seems to be working).

Although it's never boiled, the car has always been subject to running hot whenever ambient temperature is high, and I'm reasonably sure it's a consquence of flaws in the Ricciardi design (very small grille aperture, no ducting around the fan, no blanking to direct available air), plus an aging radiator.

If I was only using it on the road, I'd probably just re-core the radiator and otherwise leave as-is. However, now that it's getting a regular track workout it seems worthwhile to try and clean up all the possible issues, and if possible improve performance at the same time.

[AikenDrum105]

I'm chasing something similar with the Super at the moment..

When I bought the Super, it overheated terribly in traffic / any weather over 30 degrees. Then I replaced the 1600 with a std 2L, problem got worse of course   I backflushed the radiator,  tested the thermostat - mucked around with narrow vs wide 105 plastic fans etc - very little joy.   As a last resort, put the rad in to be recored - they found the old one was almost completely blocked - see below.

The radiator place near work I took it to said they couldn't get the exact same core - but could use a modern 2-row unit that was more efficient anyway etc etc. I took them at their word and the radiator now has a visibly thinner core, only just over an 3 - 4 cm  in total I think (as opposed to 6cm or so for the standard unit)   - the tubes are much smaller than those pictured as well.   It did  cool a lot better though - and I thought:  fixed!   until the first really hot day when it eventually heat soaked again - just took longer to get there.  I ended up sticking a thermo fan on the front of the rad and leaving the plastic pump fan behind and had to leave it like that as Babies and Renovations took priority.

I've recently stuck a TS engine in and had to finally address the cooling system - I tested the thermostat by running the car with it out - Slower heat up from cold obviously, but no difference to final temps.  at speed with decent airflow the car ran at the correct temperature,  as soon as you stopped at the lights or got caught in traffic it would start to creep up. The thermo fan would cycle on for longer and longer periods until it couldn't keep up and stayed on constantly while the temps crept up.

  I had a spare 9" thermofan so ran two fans in front of the radiator out of desperation- that helped control it, but it was still cycling 10 or so degrees too warm..    I also found, as has been mentioned, that running the dizzy retarded a little added to the heat a bit.  I'm running some extractors now too which contribute to general engine bay heat quite a lot and don't help.

Anyway - I'm getting it recored this week to a  thicker 3 core unit by the guy Hugh uses and I'm hoping it will make a big difference   Fingers crossed !

Cheers,

[Polyal]

Ok guys so in short if I was looking for a new radiator for a 74' GTV where would I go and how much roughly would it be?