Clarification needed - Standard Class Competition rules

[monoman]

Hi,

I'd like to have a play in standard class with my 147TS.  I would like some clarification with the current rules.

2009 Rules
3.   Freedom is granted with respect to the following:
a.   Engine, gearbox & diff to standard specifications
b.   Ignition system is free. .

Can I change / modify the engine management chip?

c.   Shock absorbers are free.

What about springs? Swaybars?  Ride height?
What about camber settings? 
If shockers are free, can I fit shockers with built-in camber adjustment like these http://www.option1garage.com.au/NewSuspension.htm

d.   Brake pad material is free.

Braided Lines?

g.   Exhausts may be replaced with pipes of the same diameter and design to standard (any manufacturer).

Extractors?  Sports mufflers?

l.   Suspension bush material on 105-series rear suspension trailing arm joints, 105-series rear
suspension diff/trunnion joints and 116/113-series front suspension caster arm to body joints.

So are non standard bushes (poly bushes) not allowed in standard class at all?

Can I fit a racing seat and harness for safety?

What about roll over protection? 

Can passenger and rear seats be removed?

Cheers

[Brad M]

I'm no expert on clarifying this ... that would be a chief scrutineer of a Sprint event (like Bruno @ Maranello Pursang ... call him if you would like concrete answers, 9386 9650).

My guidance is as follows;

Can I change / modify the engine management chip?

No

What about springs? Swaybars?  Ride height?

None of those are shock absorbers, so No.

What about camber settings? 

No

Braided Lines?

No, but could be argued to be either a safety or performance issue.

Extractors?  Sports mufflers?

No

So are non standard bushes (poly bushes) not allowed in standard class at all?

Don't think so, unless original specs aren't available.

Can I fit a racing seat and harness for safety?
What about roll over protection? 

Yes, safety is encouraged.

Can passenger and rear seats be removed?

No that would be lightening.

You need to remember the spirit of standard class is to encourage taking a standard car on the track.

As soon as you start talking about changing suspension, brakes, engine management, etc to get better times around the track, the car doesn't belong in standard class. The extent of the changes would need to be evaluated to determine if racing or modified is appropriate.

[Doug Gould]

Does it really matter if you go up a class? a) you'll have just as much fun and b) I wouldn't take it for granted that there'll be more competition. Have a look at some past results on the Natsoft website to see who you'll be up against.

Doug

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Braided Lines?

No, but could be argued to be either a safety or performance issue.

This is the only one I would really disagree with in this case (I'd argue ride height and camber on a 116 series GTV, as adjustments to both of these are possible as standard without modifying/changing components).

Braided lines, however, won't actually increase braking performance, only improve pedal feel (and potentially be safer than rubber lines, being less likely to burst).  You still have the same size brake pads, the same size calipers, and the same size master cylinder, so the actual braking applied cannot be any greater than it was before.  To my mind, if you were going to disallow braided lines in standard class, then the actual brake pad material and brake fluid should also be controlled.  Brake pad material will have a far greater effect on braking performance than braided lines ever will, yet that is free under standard class rules.  Perhaps this should be written in for the 2010 rules as either a confirm or deny?

I also doubt whether anyone would be particularly bothered by running in standard class with a sports muffler, as long as there are the same number as normal and the pipe size is the same - to be honest it won't make a 147TS go much better if at all.  That one is probably a bit grey though, and you'd have less of a case to defend it.  Extractors would definitely be a no no, particularly as that would remove the catalytic converters on a 147, thus freeing up the exhaust a huge amount.

All that said, why not just set the car up in a way that you enjoy driving it, whether it be on the track or road, and then worry about the class later?  There are a lot of very fast drivers in all the classes, and if you have look at some of the past times, you'll see that some of the standard cars are faster than some of the modified cars....

[jimnielsen]

Brad, these are not scrutiny issues. They are issues that relate to our class rules. People adjust the ride height and camber of their cars within the limits of the adjustabiliy provided by the standard setup of their cars. We need to have some common sense.

jim ~

[monoman]

Thanks for the replies thus far guys.

I understand the concept, or spirit, of "standard class".  I wasn't looking at stretching the rules as such.  I was curious as to how far one could go within the rules.  After reading the rules for "modified class" I can see that many of my questions are answered. 

To me, it seems that there's a bit too much of a jump from "standard" to "modified".  Perhaps there's room for a "street improved" class.  The difference being "street improved" mods might included larger diameter wheels with low profile street tyres, lowered suspension, sports muffler (loud is good), maybe a chip, but most definitely a road car.   Basically, the sort of modifications one might like on their road car that still has all its interior, air conditioner and other road luxuries and may still be driven daily. 

Taking a 116 2lt GTV as an arbitrary baseline, a "street improved" car, while clearly faster than a "standard" car,  would still be a mile behind a "modified" car with 4 allowed mods (bare metal interior, plastic panels and windows; modified suspension; big brakes; wheels and tyres or engine swap).

Perhaps I'm a bit of a romantic, but I like the idea of driving to the track, having some fun, and driving home again.  And it seems that if I want any real improvements to my standard car I have to go play with "modified" cars, and that's going to mean a whole new level of financial commitment to be competitive.  Actually, I doubt I would bother using the 147 in "modified".  I probably be better off buying a 75TS or something similar as a starting point instead.  Would probably work out the same, cost wise in the long run.

Cheers

[Jekyll and Hyde]

To me, it seems that there's a bit too much of a jump from "standard" to "modified".  Perhaps there's room for a "street improved" class.  The difference being "street improved" mods might included larger diameter wheels with low profile street tyres, lowered suspension, sports muffler (loud is good), maybe a chip, but most definitely a road car.   Basically, the sort of modifications one might like on their road car that still has all its interior, air conditioner and other road luxuries and may still be driven daily. 

Perhaps I'm a bit of a romantic, but I like the idea of driving to the track, having some fun, and driving home again.  And it seems that if I want any real improvements to my standard car I have to go play with "modified" cars, and that's going to mean a whole new level of financial commitment to be competitive.  Actually, I doubt I would bother using the 147 in "modified".  I probably be better off buying a 75TS or something similar as a starting point instead.  Would probably work out the same, cost wise in the long run.

Cheers

There actually used to be 2 classes in modified, we had base modified and super modified just last year, but the two have been condensed for this year...  And just for the sake of idle information, some of the cars in racing classes are registered and driven regularly (one or two as daily drivers), while I would say a majority of the modified class cars are driven on the road, with a large number of those as daily drivers.

As far as being competitive goes, don't take this as a put down but the biggest factor in being 'competitive' in club sprints is the driver.  We have a number of semi regular competitors who come from various higher levels of motorsport such as Sports Sedans, Formula Ford and other categories, and when they come out to play, you better believe you aren't going to be on the same level as them, unless you have a similar background.  Its quite humbling to watch a dead standard 2 litre GTV pulling away from you at Winton when you have around 230hp at the wheels, hard suspension, and enormous brakes (erm, not that I'd know all about that!  ).

The other factor which is for me at least a bit of an unknown is how competitive a 147TS (yours is Selespeed too, isn't it?) would actually be against say a 116 or 160 series car with equivalent driver?  I don't know how many people have really run them hard at a sprint, but just going on power to weight ratios (calculated off the probably inaccurate figures on Redbook), the 147 comes in at 86kw/tonne versus 95kw/tonne for a 75TS.  Combine that with the more ideal weight distribution of a 75 against a 147, and on paper you'd suggest the 147 has some work to do.

Not trying to discourage you from running the car at all, I'm all for people grabbing whatever they have in the garage and getting it out on the track (I'd do it for a laugh with my lifted Range Rover if I thought I could get it through scrutineering!), just trying to stop you getting too hung up on winning/placing (however you define competitive).  Just go out, thrash your car for the day, and enjoy it regardless of how fast you may or may not have gone compared to everyone else!

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Oh, and one more thing that just occured to me with regards to springs/lowering - there was a factory lowering kit for the 147/156 cars, utilising Eibach springs (same shocks though I believe).  If your car doesn't already have these springs fitted, you could fit a set of those and still remain in standard class (in my opinion).  From memory they give about a 25-30mm drop, and of course have a slightly stiffer spring rate.  A quick ring around the usual suspects (Monza Motors/Maranello etc) would likely turn up a set.

[John Toomath]

Monoman

I'm now into my 3rd year of club sprints.  For the first year I used my standard GTV and had a ball.  I got the chance to drive at Winton, Sandown and then Phillip Island. It's a great buzz and you go at whatever pace you feel comfortable at.  The priority quickly becomes yourself you are competing against and then secondary is comparing yourself to similar cars.

Running on standard road tyres is usually the first limiting factor you run into.  I can still remember the squealing soundtrack I provided at those first year meets (and that was with some nice Pirelli Rossos).  The valid temptation will be to get some spare wheels off ebay (cheap and always available) and put some R type tyres on.  Then drive to the track, swap wheels, have a blast, swap back and drive home. I have got 2 full seasons use out of a set. This immediately moves you into Modified class and a whole lot more fun. 

The sprint meets are organised into groups based on expected lap times, not class.  This then puts similar paced cars on the track together and because they are sent out a minimum of 5 seconds apart, you will get lots of clear road to enjoy the track, without having to be too concerned about constantly having traffic around you.

Usually there is a driver training day run in February each year and new and experienced drivers alike get a big benefit from sharing their car with a skilled driver.  It was worth over 2 seconds a lap for me.

Having the chance to drive cars on the track how they were engineered to be driven gives me a buzz and has actually removed a lot of the desire to push it on the road.  Give it a try. You'll probably find it to be as much fun as you hope it will be.

[monoman]

And just for the sake of idle information, some of the cars in racing classes are registered and driven regularly, while I would say a majority of the modified class cars are driven on the road, some as daily drivers.

Sure they are.  Just depends on which 4 mods they chose.  My guess is that a bare metal interior with fibreglass/kevlar/carbon panels and perspex windowed car with a full cage and only a drivers seat is unlikely to see too many road miles.  I wonder how many kilos you could strip off of a 75TS?

The other factor which is for me at least a bit of an unknown is how competitive a 147TS (yours is Selespeed too, isn't it?) would actually be against say a 116 or 160 series car with equivalent driver?  I don't know how many people have really run them hard at a sprint, but just going on power to weight ratios (calculated off the probably inaccurate figures on Redbook), the 147 comes in at 86kw/tonne versus 95kw/tonne for a 75TS.  Combine that with the more ideal weight distribution of a 75 against a 147, and on paper you'd suggest the 147 has some work to do.

On paper, the 75TS is bit quicker to 100km, about the same over a kilometre and slightly slower top speed
The 147 has 150mm wider track, lower profile and wider tyres, ABS (hopefully not too intrusive on the track) so might have handling and braking advantages.  

Overall, not much between them.

Not trying to discourage you from running the car at all, I'm all for people grabbing whatever they have in the garage and getting it out on the track (I'd do it for a laugh with my lifted Range Rover if I thought I could get it through scrutineering!)!

Like I said before.  I like the idea of racing what I drove.  Might bring the old Rangie too.  For a big barge, it sure steers well.

Cheers

[monoman]

Give it a try. You'll probably find it to be as much fun as you hope it will be.

Sorry Guys.  I should've mentioned that I'm an ex club member from the early 90's and have played in a few AROCA sprints, as well as a few other car clubs.  I've been away from cars and exclusively riding bikes for the last 12 or so years and have just returned to 4 wheels because of a spinal cord injury (not bike related).  Using bikes as an example, most club / track day riders are actually faster on less powerful bikes, just try telling them that.

[Brad M]

Brad, these are not scrutiny issues. They are issues that relate to our class rules. People adjust the ride height and camber of their cars within the limits of the adjustabiliy provided by the standard setup of their cars. We need to have some common sense.

jim ~

Jim, you are right these are not Scrutiny issues as such, but as the Entrant Declaration Form is required to be signed by a Chief Scrutineer to assign the class each year, who apart from the Competition Sub-Committee would you recommend to get advice from?

[Simon Aarons]

I have found you the perfect 75 track car 

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=3453.0