Classification

[Domenic]

Was reading through the recent Allegerita and noticed the different classes for this years Spettacolo.

I'm trying to understand why the Alfa 147 is in class M?

The every other model is in the designated class organised via their VIN# prefix.
The 147 has the same prefix as the 156, yet is in a different class.


How is it meant to compete against the newer Alfa's when it shares no components compared the the 156??
The 147 is essentially a 156 hatch
Can someone please explain this, because i feel it's unfair for someone entering the show and shine, with an early model car up against a late model one

[John Hanslow]

In doing some research, Alfa now have a different model code for each vehicle, not series as before.  What we are doing is trying to group similar cars together as per previous series.

I think we have it right but for one or two issues.  Lets have a look at say, the current model vehicles, the 147 & GT should be with the 156 class, but they are current models. Thats the basis of grouping the modern cars. 932 series & Current models you can buy.

I konw that the 147 was sold from about 2002 onwards and you could have a 7 year old car competing with a new car, but we have checks and balances in place for that.Alternatively, if we had the 147 with the 932 Series, then the reverse would happen, you could enter a new 147 into the class of cars up to 10 years old.

It's not perferct but its ok for now. No one can purchase a new car and enter it into the show and shine.   If we had more members with 147 and perhps MiTO models (hopefully this may happen), then we would consider the merits of a class for them both.  Its all a bit flexible, we do try and give eveyone a chance and have a fair go.  This year, we have again split the modern cars into two categories, sedans and coupes.  Its all fun.

Cheers.

[david sammartino]

have to give my 2 bob on this one. i understand that alfa has changed the way they class the cars and that there may well be checks and such to try and even things out, but the reality is that they arnt full proof and at the end of the day mr.joe blow who is entering the show and shine and paying his money to possibly win a trophy or whatever ,is under the assumption that he is competing with like cars, and not with a bunch of numbers and codes that alfa changes willy nilly. basically conforming to this means that if alfa changed things again next year, and the same cars were all present and changed against eachother, that a different winner could be judged all due to being in a new or old class. just my opinion but after attending many spettacolos i think alot more people would enter if they thought they had a chance of winning, i mean what judge in there right mind would award a 147 the winner in a show and shine against a brand spanking 159. im sorry but to me it just doesnt make sense and i think the 10 dollar entry fee or whatver it is, should more then cover the 5 dollar trophy, so that even if one car is entered in all individual classes, everybody should get a trophy because finanacially isnt the cost more than covered? im sure alot more people feel the same and possibly the club may see alot more entries on the day. i also understand that it is a big task for all the volunteers and the like, so if it came down to simply a shortage of hands, im sure i myself or could gather up a few others quite easily, could help out on the day.

cheers and all in good fun to make things bigger and better!

p.s the point about noone being able to buy a new car and enter is also aknowledged, however the fact that alfa tend not to dramatically alter their model line ups, and the type of owners who protect and take care of their pride and joy who are attracted to the brand, means that a 3 year old 159 is identical to a current one, so can be said that this point is negligible.

[Domenic]

I know that the 147 was sold from about 2002 onwards and you could have a 7 year old car competing with a new car, but we have checks and balances in place for that.Alternatively, if we had the 147 with the 932 Series, then the reverse would happen, you could enter a new 147 into the class of cars up to 10 years old.

That would be the same excuse given in class F then.
The Alfa 33 16v, is still in that class when it is almost 20 years difference between the first suds, but it is still in that class because of the VIN# prefix.

So why not the 147?

I just find it really stupid that every other class is designated by that prefix, yet the 147 misses out.
It isn't logical, and I'm pretty sure there are others out there that agree.

[Domenic]

I'd just like to add that in the Technical Section of the forum....

The 147 is included in the 932 series, not Current models.

So why isn't it the same for the Spettacolo

[John Hanslow]

OK gents here we go... I am getting a bit stressed here and I have a busy day and a headache already !

Firstly, the 147 is a current model car so thats why in the Show'n Shine is under that class.
As I said previously, if we put it in the the 932 Series Class, then near new cars are up against cars cars up to 10 years old. It is an anomoly.

Now as I referred to earlier,  there are a few technical adjustments that need to be made and there will be a bias against new cars.  What does that mean? ... well it means you can not purchase a new car this week and enter it in the Show'n Shine - or more importantly the Concorso, as the car would be 'new'.   We have basic rules to make it all fair and one will be having a minimum milage (KM's) requirement for entry. This issue will be sorted this week as we have has an instance where a new car was purchased a few days before the Show'n Shine - you can see where I am heading there.   This should solve this issue and to be finalised in a few days.  I should have all the info at the Car Detailig Night.

The 147 is in the Technical section under 932 series as for comments & queries, it clearly fits in to that group as it's a 156 without a boot.  Its under Current Model at Spettacolo because that's what it is.  Really the 149 should have replaced the 147 already but as we know that's another story.

I am always appreciate good ideas and change but it has to be workable.  Sometimes we have to go with what we have.

Now to get some extra facts here, the trophy cost is north of $50 and the cost of entry is $5.  Its a time where we have a bit of fun with fellow Alfisti.  The Club is on show and we all get together with other members and also the general public are particularly welcome. This is the direction I am coming from.

Now any volunteers who want to help out for say 30 minutes with field control, judging & admin let me know as we got a bit caught out last year.  Please email me or call me direct 0409-961-719.  We need you help to make it a great success.  It's not a big ask as you are there anyway with fellow Alfisti.

Any info on any possible entries in Concorso - and yes, no new ones are going to win (refer above)  ?

Cheers.

[ProvaRacing]

Ok if this "current model" logic was to be followed wouldn't it make sense to seperate the 147's with the revised and facelifted MY05 & MY09 (the latter being the actual current model) in "Current". And leave the MY02 (which started selling in 2001 ending 2004) with the 156? The early 147's do afterall look distinctly different.

A small concession don't you think? Anyway it's up to you to organise so if you think this is too much so be it.

[John Hanslow]

ProvaRacing, that's a valid point and actually worth considering. 

We did not want to split the 147 over 2 classes but there is merit in what you say.  The current models and other classifications were discussed but we missed that aspect of it.  facelift & updates etc.

We are flexible and it has to be workable.  Without such input and suggestions, we would not get options or solutions.  I will refer to necessary Alfisti.  I suppose not having a class spanning now 10 years made it difficult but giving an option greatly assists.

Thank you.

[david sammartino]

maybe we have found some middle ground here. i do see the cons however i still believe the pros far outweigh them. for instance im sure that there is enough money in the club kitty for trophies and such as i know for myself whenever i attend a club event i always try and buy something or donate money in the believe that others are doing the same and we build up a little nest egg lol. actually i even recall the last meeting i attended we were told how well the club was doing and that we had a few grand in the bank, so in that regard i dont see an issue with buying a few extra trophies. i agree with you in the respect that it does take more people and like i said earlier i am more than willing, actually if you pm me we can organise from now. hopefully in the end of all this we can make things bigger and better as i for one made many friends whom i still keep in contact with when i first went to spettacallo many moons ago, and maybe if there is an interest and people think they actually have a chance of winning and arent hesitant about things like class rules etc etc, it may result in more entries, more alfas, more fun.and john we all appreciate the effort needed in an event like this and we dont want to give you a headache just yet, well save that for the day lol would be to good to see the grass full of alfas this year, whether permitting of course!

p.s i wont be at the detailing night so if there is any information or anything can you pm or email me

[John Hanslow]

Thanks for a positive spin on this gents.  Prova & David - I have replied off line. 

We can not satisfy everyone but we have a good solution here.  We also have to be 'fair and reasonable' to our members and carry on this event with a degree of professionalism.  But we are reliant on volunteers for our efforts which can be a weakness. Also this is reflected in the judging resluts too.

I believe the day should be demand driven by the members and their cars so the point here is we are basing our resluts on last years efforts.  It was a rainy weekend with fair weather on the day, about 45 cars in Show'n Shine and 1 Concorso.  Some vehicle classes only had 1 entry which is a bit of a let down.  The 932 series & Current vehicles had the most.  In the planning & discussion, we did not consider the 147 vehicle history an issue as we only had 1 entry and they were visitors (Don't quote me on that).  Most are 156 sedans with a good representation of the GTA's.

Cheers.

[John Hanslow]

Just an update here folks.

We have amended our rules for the Wash n Shine Judging Sheets to split the 147 into 932 Series for early models (2001-2004) and Current Models for post 2004 facelift models. The Entry form will the same for the moment.

That should cover this due to the 147 being an exception.  Hope we see a range of cars on the day.

Regards

[Domenic]

Hi John,


Do you still need volunteers to judge on the day??

[John Hanslow]

Yes we do and your post is much appreciated. All volunteers welcome as we should have a busy day this year.  The more we have the easier it is.  I will be having a Spettacolo meeting prior to the club night Wednesday week say 7.30 pm just to sort out the tasks and guage the level of volunteers.

And we now have a entry in the Concorso event so we have to be 100% there.  If you can not make it let me know off line or call me on 0409-961-719.

Cheers.

[ProvaRacing]

Hi John is there somewhere that the judging criteria is listed so others have a guide as to weight of points to specific areas?

[John Hanslow]

Actual the wash n Shine Application form will be posted on the net in a few days.  However generally speaking, we are judging the cleanliness and shininess of the exterior only.  That is wheels, windows, body, bumpers.

Also points will be taken off is the vehicle is just out of the showroom.  These is  a penalty for low kms.

This year the cabin will be included only for cleanliness.

Details to follow.