New Ferrari

[Barry Edmunds]

Anyone see the write-up on the new Ferrari 458 last week?
Interesting to read the specs etc; drag co-efficient of just .33 which is pretty good in anyone's company.
Interesting that Ferrari have invested the odd tens of Millions in development et al over a few decades and the best that they can come up with after all that development, investment and effort is a meagre .01 improvement on the drag co-efficient of my old Giulia Super.
Well may you wonder why we Giulia Super and Giulia Ti owners are just walking a bit taller and perhaps feeling a little smug today after reading that report.
Only Giulia Super and Giulia Ti owners will ever understand.
Barry

[Brad M]

Hmm ... 458 or a Giulia in the drive ...

I'd like one of those drinks you had that make the latter more attractive.... maybe then I'd understand

[GTV-074]

Barry,

Spot on about that....I read that too and had a quiet chuckle!

I tell friends about the 'slippery-ness' of the Giulia sedan and compare it to the Porsche 911 (as they do in various places) and

they all look at me as if I have just landed from Mars!

Yes us Super owners "suffer" for our art!

Cheers.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Interesting that Ferrari have invested the odd tens of Millions in development et al over a few decades and the best that they can come up with after all that development, investment and effort is a meagre .01 improvement on the drag co-efficient of my old Giulia Super.

I know, and for all the billions they invest in Formula 1, the best they can do with their racecar is .70, even up to 1.1 for Monaco. They must have monkeys running that company.

[Barry Edmunds]

Brad
No drinks involved. No arguments about the attractiveness of one against the other either. Just a comparison between the drag co-efficiency of two cars. Methinks Orazio Satta got it right in the 50's and I doubt if he had the benefits of wind tunnels, computers etc at the time either.
Barry

[L4OMEO]

I doubt if he had the benefits of wind tunnels, computers etc at the time either

Which would make me question the legitimacy of the quoted cd figure in the first place!

[Davidm1600]

Ahm, actually Barry and L4OMEO, they did have a wind tunnel and put it to extremely good use in designing the Giulia sedan. I have seen an article including photos of little tufts of wool or whatever it is they attach to a car (back then) when testing in the tunnel to observe drag and turbulence in air flows.  I recall seeing the article on the BB sometime ago. If you look in some of the books on Giulias you will also see the evolution in the design of the Giulia.

Given I saw the figure for Giulia quoted in a pommie car magazine (I think Autocar or Car magazine ??) back in the 70's, I also recall they gave quoted CDs for the 911, E, type, 1750 GTV and Citroen ID 19.  Only the Citroen was on par with the Giulia.

I think for Brad's edification, while the modern Ferrari is "nice", and yes I wouldn't refuse one if given it but would sell it pronto, you really wouldn't want to own it.  Such exotica for instance is falling in value faster than a brick off a tall building, (ie. DB9 for 19,000 pounds in the UK second hand and similar for Ferraris etc) and the maintenance costs are huge.

Whereas, a decent Giulia is holding its own if not increasing in value. 

Besides, the Giulia is easy to live, with practical and looks down right evil (wicked) when slightly lowered and in a dark colour IMO.    .  If I were to have a Ferrari it would have to be Dino, they sound right and look right and this is only magnified when travelling in one at full throttle, as I managed to get a ride in one earlier this year.

[ProvaRacing]

I had to have a chuckle...this post is a joke right?

You are being sarcastic Sheldon aren't you? Because whether you are or not you have hit the nail on the head...why do you think the CD is so high on the F1 cars? Downforce. If you remove the front and rear spoilers the CD would be about 0.1-0.2. And likewise the 458 or any Ferrari since F355 are designed to generate downforce (not the F1 size figures but likewise why F1 needs so much power), this involves air disturbance to create high/low pressure flow etc.

In summary nice laugh Barry...the bits you also need to consider are "frontal area" this is the silhouette of the car from the front and means how much air the car has to push out of the way, that's where the power/torque are strained. And the generated downforce of the 458 means it can turn a corner at the straightline top speed of the Giulia

Nice cars the Guilia's just that the 458 is nicer^x1000 

Depreciation? Now there's a topic foreign to Alfa....

[Brad M]

Depreciation? Now there's a topic foreign to Alfa....

la la la la la la la la la ... I can't hear you 

[L4OMEO]

Hey all

Yeah, my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek – I know aero was a key aspect of the Giulia's design and that it was considered advanced by contemporary standards. I would add though that the technology and methodologies were very different to today and would question the value of comparing a cd figure then with one from today. And anyway, as ProvaRacing points out the cd figure in isolation is only one small part of aerodynamics.

As for not wanting a Ferrari 458 in preference to a Giulia, we might need to agree to disagree on that one!

Cheers all
Rory

[Sheldon McIntosh]

You are being sarcastic Sheldon aren't you?

Yes I am, gald you got the point though.

The 458's drag factor is very impressive when you consider that it produces negative lift at all speeds, and without an ugly rear spoiler.