How much to fully restore a GTV6 ??

[MD]

What's a car worth? Quite often the forum gets a request to pass an opinion on a car for sale to get some idea of whether the asking price is value or not. Most of us have a gut feeling of what we are prepared to pay based upon many things but essentialy relying on the so called "going rate".

When it comes to the various character of owners, they vary from the traditional who expect their cars to be in nothing but concourse condition. People in the middle who just want it mechanically right and the rev heads who simply want to make it go quick. Naturally, there are many shades in between.

As the GTV6 is now more than two decades old, it stands to reason that people buying them for the first time should expect  maintenance to be carried based upon the owner profile that they are and what they eventually expect from the car.

I dont know how many have sat down and pencilled out a budget to FULLY restore one of these cars and those who haven't may find my scribblings of some value having done the restoration exercise myself.


Assuming you bought a complete car for just $100 and you want to finish up as close to the original showroom condition as it was sold when new. The following table of costs will vary based upon prices you can negotiate, where you live and only serves as guide. It assumes the work to be done by the trade.

So if you are in the market for these types of cars at least you have some idea what the real value of them is depending on their condition and state of restoration (if any).

[alfagtv58]

Spot on MD.  As I read through your list, I was thinking 'yes, that's pretty right, that one is a little lean, that one is right', and presto at the bottom it is quite a large number.  It really is that easy to spend that much 

In fact the cost of Paint and Panel could easily double or triple (or more?) depending on the level of rust, previous poor quality repairs and/or prior accident damage.

Makes me wonder why I am starting this process again with the 105......then again...not really, I love it!

[franck]

good job on the quote, i would just swap interior for paint and panel price, a question though, is there anyone that would actually pay that sort of cash on a gtv6, the highest price/sale i have seen was in italy in the region of umbria an 85gtv6 49k on the clock charcoal in colour with deep burgandy leather interior one owner, immac,14500 euro about 12mts ago

[JOHN G]

I can't open MD's file on this little toy of a computer I am on. What was the final figure please ?

John

[Sportscar Nut]

Final figure is $45,700 and my own thoughts are this is conservative. Agree with other comments that $6K is pretty cheap for paintwork. The only two panelbeaters I trust estimate a bare metal 105 respray will cost $15K.

Lighting may also cost more than the $2K allowed after noting what people are now asking for perfect GTV6 lights/ indicator lenses etc.

The moral of the story (unfortunately) is that it is far cheaper & quicker to buy an immaculate Alfa GTV6/ 105 etc that restore one.

My 'guesstimate' is that if you are patient, immaculate GTV6's might fetch around $15K.

Paul

[DAVIDT]

I have one for sale, clean and when Bruno finishes with it to roadworthy you dont need to spend $45,000 in fact less than a quarter for her.......If youre not from melbourne,Bruno[club member] at MARANELLO PURSANG MOTORS on 03 9386 9650 for details...........silver/80,000KM?............DAVIDT. 0415 803 891 MORNINGS.

[lombardi]

This story is scary-sounds like a bottomless pit.rgrds

[JOHN G]

Thanks Paul


I agree $45,700 sounds like a tight budget to work with.

Considering these cars cost up to $39,000 for a new Grand Prix I would say $45,700 to bring one to as new is a bargain.
The only two things I can't live with is the non LSD box and the standard suspension.(add $5,000)

Also add big brakes and a supercharger kit  and your looking at another ($10,000)

So for $60,700 you can have a GTV6 to match modern day performance cars with style and class.

I am sure if I was advertise a such a car I would be lucky to get offers of $20,000.

John

[pep105]

Good stuff MD, definatley a big number at the bottom which could well be exceeded. When it comes to Paint & Panel it can be a bit of an open checkbook, as Ive discovered since delivering the 105 to ther panel beater on the weekend (finally!) but I agree with Phil its a labour of love !

[MD]

What I have attempted to do is to illustrate to the intending buyer that there are at least 3 types of mindsets operating out there when it comes to buying and using these cars. Please don't take this too literally.

1 The under $10,000 Group

Here people are toe dipping. Not wanting to risk too much particularly if they have never had one before. Leaving some funds in reserve when things go wrong as they expect they will (and they do).

2 The $10-20,000 Group

These guys know what this car is about and have a thorough liking for them. They can be (but not necessarily) mechanically minded, cannot be bothered working on them or simply looking for originality. They want a reliable machine, as original as possible that has good presentation.Deviation from the original is usually frowned upon and it doesn't matter what you paid for those subwoofers 'cause their value is being seriously marked down.

3 The $20,000 plus group

These guys would sleep with these cars if the missus would only agree. The final price is not as important as what they get for the money. They are actually in two subgroups. The first are the concourse lads who want to replicate the factory down to zinc platting all the hinges and door locks, screws, nuts, bolts and kill for original decals and transfers. Originality is king.

The second subgroup know what this car was actually meant for and they want to fully restore it but unlike the factory, they want to replace components to homolgate a  car that now performs better than the original but looks the goods as well. Originality is pursued but is not the sole criteria.

So I think we need to rethink just where we fit in before we decide on what is the real value of these cars as I think in some cases, they are just lumped into one mindset and being sold way too cheap.

[JOHN G]

Nicely put Mike!

So for 3 of my cars I am mindset 3.

For 3 of my cars I am mindset 3 subgroup 2.

And for the other two I am subgroup 2 aka (Dont give a toss as long as it is RWD and Alfa.)

John

[Sportscar Nut]

Guys

Lombardi - fully agree!

John, PM me if you plan to advertise 'such a GTV6' for $20K ONO but don't start me on RWD versus FWD (naturally as a Sud owner)!

...and MD, agree with your comments and that some cars are sold too cheaply but that is life in a capitalist market where demand & liquidity for a good is limited.

Ultimately, owning these cars and the satisfaction derived is beyond any economic monetary value.

Regards
Paul

[Davidm1600]

Evening all and given I have gone through the restoration process with my '69 AC Fiat 124 sport, am part way through the resto of my '69 Giulia Super and have started to acquire parts for my '69 1750 GTV, let alone owned both an Alfetta Gt and sedan in the part let me add my thoughts to the comments here, for I have a little first hand experience

I will qualify this by adding though that I havn't owned or even driven a GTV6 yet, but perhaps one day.  So if I am wrong in my views on some of the costs, I am the first to accept this might be so.

However, and to the purpose of the thread topic.  From my observations the majority of GTV6s that have been for sale over the past couple of years have ranged from a few sub $2k cars (rusty wrecks), to the middle ground area of $6500-1200 and then occasionally a few in the $15 -20K mark.  I can only recall a couple of standard GTV6's for over $30K (I think there currently is one for sale for $35K), but frankly I don't like their chances of getting this sort of money.  Obviously there have been some race cars etc for sale for well over $20K and it is no point bringing into the equation Scott Farqueson's (cant spell his name) car, since this is a different kettle of fish, being a somewhat very special car.

Ok, so that is the current market as I see it. 

However, I would question some of the estimated costs attributed to bringing a $6K GTV6 upto the stated total expenditure of $47500.  For one thing I agree re the comments that allowing $6k for a full strip and re-paint is probably too low, but then again I also think from my experience that $5k is probably too high for the interior (and that is even allowing for a full re-trim (seats/door cards), new headlining, and carpets.  I have done both my Fiat and my Giulia (in connolly leather), plus all other interior trim for about $3K.  Then there is the question of allowing $10k for an engine rebuild.  This to my mind seems extremely expensive (perhaps I am wrong).  I could go on, as I suspect there are numerous items which could either be deleted from the list or alternatively an owner could find a better option.  ie. why spend so much on an engine, rather than obtaining a decent 2nd hand one (apart from the issue of originality). Use e-bay, overseas parts suppliers etc.

The problem though as I see it is that no one is likely to even remotely pay nearly $50K for an Alfetta GTV6 or invest that much in restoring one, for which you will never see a return on it, especially if you can get a perfectly nice one for between $8-12K.  So why bother even contemplate the idea, as it make little economical sense.  Ah ha though we are talking about Alfas and of course our hearts rule 

[alfagtv58]

A quote from the BB, from someone in Tassie (not sure if you are on here too) I like the theory behind his thinking.... http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1965-1974/159263-plz-help-i-need-some-feedback-spent.html

Just as an alternative way of looking at the amount spent vs. what it's worth afterwards - I always try to put on my "buying a new car tinted glasses" - i.e. how much will I have spent on it in total? What sort of new car would that buy me? How much would that new car be worth 5 mins after leaving the dealership? And finally, how much would I enjoy buying & owning that new car?

Generally, I find the money spent on the Alfa better "value"

[L4OMEO]

Nice sum up MD.

So it's easy to see how you could end up with a 50-60k GTV6. No, I don't see anyone paying you 60k for it given what else they could buy for that money, but then if someone's willing to write a cheque for nearly a million bucks for a GTHO Falcon (what could you fill your garage with for that sort of coin???) then anything can happen  

On the flip side, sometime these circumstances can work in your favour – I bought a Webasto-roofed 1967 1300GT Junior for NZD7700 just after the previous owner spent NZD26,000 restoring it  

Ultimately, owning these cars and the satisfaction derived is beyond any economic monetary value

Well put Paul!

All but a small handful of the 38 cars I've owned have been bough heart over head and this has probably been to my financial detriment. I say 'probably' because frankly I've never bothered to quantify it – cars bought from the heart pay you back in so many other ways that aren't easy to put a price on.

Rory