Made in ...I don't know !

[ProvaRacing]

Here is an interesting point I haven't seen raised anywhere, so if you have seen someone make this point, I am not plagiarizing (but if you see this elsewhere they are plagiarizing me!!!), why is it that every item you see in a store has a "Made in _ _ _ _ _" on it or the box it comes in and yet on a motor car it is a secret?

I mean on any product it has to be seen clearly in type face large enough to read on the pack or product as it is sold to a consumer. Yet the motor industry manage to hide this from consumers, I am sure many people would like to know (or maybe they wouldn't) that;

Alfa Romeo made in Italy (all since 1910)
VW Golf is made in South Africa (start of production in Germany then switch location)
VW Beetle made in Mexico
BMW 3 series also Sth Africa
BMW X5 xDrive30i E70 made in USA
Audi has a factory in India making A4, will you be told when they switch from Germany?
Audi Q7 Made in Slovakia
Previous Benz C class in China (new one is Germany...guess what that huge factory in China is for?)
Benz ML500 W164 in USA
Benz C180 Kompressor Elegance W203 made in Sth Africa
Benz C200 Kompressor Avantgarde W203 made in Sth Africa
Honda Civic VTi-L made in Thailand
Honda Accord V6 made in Thailand
Honda CRV Made in Thailand
Honda Jazz made in Thailand
etc etc

I don't mean finding some manufacturer plate in some obscure part of an eng bay or translating some VIN number code to find country of origin, I mean a sticker on the windscreen saying - "Yes this is a high priced car from a brand located in a country with high standards, Geramny...but this car is made in the HIV riddled country of South Africa"
An enquiry with ACCC proved useless as they don't require anything to label where it is made. So I ask perhaps rhetorically why is it cars are excused and it is ok to deceive (by brand association with a country) the consumer.

[NigelC]

Good point, but almost every car could say - assembled in Australia from imported components.  Even a 3.2 Alfa 159 could say it has an Australian engine block built by an American owned Company.  I think it is a little too complicated to simply stamp one country of origin on a complex machine that incorporates parts manufactured all over the world. 
Additionally, not all automobile manufacturers make everything that goes into a car and there are many generic components, such as airbags, where the consumer benefits from having a specialised airbag manaufacturer produce the product, rather than a car company.  Even drive train components work the same way, ZF automatic gearboxes can be found in BMW, Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Peugot and Ford vehicles while they are manufactured in South Africa, Brazil and Germany.

So, all in all, it's a nice thought but there are very few cars designed and manufactured from components made in just one country.  The Ford Falcon is probably closest but even there, Ford is American owned.

[turboalfa]

Hey prova im in the car industrie as im your everyday salesmen who wants to be the best haha.

also im only 18 just starting of the sales career and i am currently working at CITY FORD. Our Fiesta and Focus have where they are made on a white sticker under the bonnet i do believe. well a focus is built completely in germany well as the focus is built in germany but it is all in writing:) not sure why none of the other cars we have say it though.

[JOHN G]

What are you on about?

The 3.0 GTV6 was  made in South Africa.

Right-hand drive production post-1960
In the 60s, the main Alfa Romeo seat was moved from inside Milan to a very large and nearby area extending over the municipalities of Arese, Lainate and Garbagnate Milanese. However, since then the Alfa seat is known to be in Arese, since the offices and the main entrance of the area are there.
In the late 1960s, a number of European automobile manufacturers established facilities in South Africa to assemble right hand drive vehicles. Fiat and other Italian manufacturers established factories along with these other manufacturers, Alfa-Romeos were assembled in Brits, outside of Pretoria in the Transvaal Province of South Africa. With the imposition of sanctions by western powers in the 1970s and 1980s, South Africa became self sufficient, and in car production came to rely more and more on the products from local factories.

This led to a remarkable set of circumstances where between 1972 and 1989, South Africa had the greatest number of Alfa Romeos on the road outside of Italy.



John

[ProvaRacing]

What are you on about?

ditto

I should clear up something JOHN G, firstly I am talking "Vehicles delivered to Australia by the official importer". There by excluding cars assembled in CKD form in foreign countries for that country or surrounding region only. Hell I've been to the factory in Thailand where it was being contracted to assemble 156's for local asian market only - but not export to Europe or Australia.

Secondly NigelC, I may have confused you with making mention of "country of orgin", when all I want is "Made in _ _ _ _" labelling - where has it been put together. And none of the components origin apply in that case. Just like they don't for every manufactured item imported into Australia like washing machines, PC's, lawn mowers, sewing machines, blenders, vaccum cleaners etc etc (with exception of FTA requirements).

The question remains unanswered...why are motor cars virtually the only item excluded from displaying in it's retail form it's "Made in...." description? If anyone has the actual answer I really want to know.

[wetprickles]

Ex Nissan Salesman,
Nissan D40 Navara- made in Spain from Renault derived platforms and parts.
Ditto for R51 Pathfinder.
Nissan D22 Navara- made in Japan with Nissan derived platforms and parts.
Nissan Tiida – Series one built in England [as well as the last of the Pulsars.]
Nissan Tiida – series two made in Thialand.

The plot thickens!

But yeah prova "why are motor cars virtually the only item excluded from displaying in it's retail form it's "Made in...." description?
...seems a source of some embarasment to those big boys in the Vehicle Manufacturing Industry

[L4OMEO]

I tend to agree with NigelC. Perhaps it's because unlike most consumer products cars can be an assembly of components made from all over the globe. You could argue that putting a 'Made in XXX-land' sticker on something which has is designed in Belgium, has an American engine, German gearbox, suspension components from Australia, a glovebox lid from New Zealand, ECU and software from Fiji (yes I'm making this example up) is equalling misleading. Falcadores have historically been openly promoted as 'Made In Australia' yet the actual local content in them has fluctuated over the years, on ocassion dropping to lower than locally built Toyotas.

Thanks for the South African history lesson John, I knew SA had a strong industry there but never knew why. There were some interesting cars coming out of there during the 80's - I remember BMW building a 333i using the 3.2 litre six, and didn't Ford put a 5.0 V8 into the Suierra for homologation purposes?

Rory

[RyanO]

Maybe it's just a Australian thing, that they change the manufacturers plate for a local compliance plate.

From what I can remember all the cars I owned in South Africa had plates or stickers on saying where they were assembled i.e. Uitenhage plant, Rosslyn plant etc. The Escort  I owned in Ireland had a UK plate and the Peugeot had a France plate.

I've only owned two cars in Australia so far, the Falcon doesn't say where it was built and the Vectra has a Australia compliance plate but other stickers in German.

Wrt to the South African 'specials' there were quite a few due to the sanctions against South Africa and the weaker Rand.
Most if not all were built for racing.
The BMW 333 had a 3.3ltr motor from the 733i, the 733i's then got 4.5 motors to make the 745i.
A few others were the 3.0 GTV6's with six single choke carbs,
Giulia ti's and Rallye's although I'm not sure these were unique to SAfrica,
Ford Capri Perana with a 302 V8,
Ford Granada Perana,
Chev Firenza Canam with a 308 V8,
Ford Sierra XR8 with a 302 V8,
Cortina XR6 with British 3.0 Essex motor.

Because practically every manufacturer had or has a factory in Safrica we also used to get some unique run of the mill models eg. the VW Golf Mk1 Gti was a two door for the rest of the world whereas in SAfrica it was only sold as a four door.

From what I've seen, probably because of the Brits factory in SAfrica there seems to be a lot more 105 series cars still around in South Africa, although there are a lot less 75's, 90's and 164's. There are still quite a few 116 series cars on the road.

Ryan

[MD]

Hey hey, this is a HUGE topic and I think ProvaRacing is on the money. Money being the operative word here. It helps to be a Grey Nomad to know this but how many of you can remember when goods were bought on the basis of the country of origin? That is to say, since the start of the Industrial Revolution, certain countries developed better techniques than others when manufacturing goods either cheaper or better and sometimes cheaper and better.

Some countries were renowned for making top quality items such as British , German and American tools. Swiss watches and chocolates.The Japanese were known to make absolute crap but dirt cheap with eye appeal. So the customer loyalty started to follow the quality source to certain countries for commodities they required knowing with reasonable certainty that the goods they were buying would meet a high standard and the very reputation of the country depended upon this image.

Sure enough before too long the bean counters arrived on the scene and so it came to pass that a new wisdom would arise where the price of everything was paramount and quality became incidental under the assumption that customer loyalty to the brand would remain as long as the location of the manufacture was kept under raps..Enter, ProvaRacing

So what we have today is a sort of unofficial fraud taking place except it's to too big to fix much like the recent financial implosion

[L4OMEO]

Surely it's only fraud if someone is making a claim that is not correct - who exactly is doing that here? Sounds overly conspiracy-theoretical to me. I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about consumer assumption, and if this is based on outdated paradigms then you can hardly blame the manufacturer. In any case, that's a comparatively rare situation these days as consumers are better informed and do more pre-buying research than ever before.

[pep105]

While motor vehicles do not state country of origin, genuine branded OEM parts must state it on the original packaging as part of an ACCC ruling from about 5 years ago. Until then a local supplier could potentially brand their parts as 'Made in Australia' even if it components in it were imported or manufactured elsewhere.
The way in which its goverened is that a supplier will fill in a declaration of country of origin based on where the largest percentage of manufacturing occurs in a submission to the vehicle manufacturer during the parts development phase, in the event it is sold as a serviceable item branded as a geniune product.

And because a car is a sum of its parts like Rory & Nigel C have said it would be difficult or misleading to clearly state Made in Australia, would probably read manufactured in Australia from imported components.

The comment about fluctuating local content is true, the previous generation Toyotas had a local content of 77%, the current generation has dropped to just under 70% as a result of greater use of global parts
youd probaly find the VE Commodore to have a signifiantly lower local content than its VZ predecessor due to a lot of components being sourced from offshore, so its all about the dollar guys - bottom line.

[L4OMEO]

I agree Pep105 - I work in for a German manufacturing company and 85% of our production is now done in Asia. Way of the world.

[MD]

Interesting topic indeed.

Image is king and make no mistake about it. Consumers have an affinity to brands be it clothes, soft drinks or cars. There is a perception that quality is tied to a brand and brand is tied to a country rightly or wrongly and so the place of origin is important to consumers. The perfect example is  Asian market. The upwardly mobile and those that are well healed do not buy locally made cars. They prefer European machinery even though Toyota has beaten Mercedes Benz hands down for reliability and quality control.

Just to test your own position of this issue ask yourself this question:

A Mercedes model costing $120,000 is totally made in Germany and also in China. Which one would you buy?

My personal position is this. I am happy to buy my brand of car made anywhere provided the quality control and the skill level is there to manufacture it. However the price of the car should reflect the cost of the el cheapo labour market it came from and of course therein lies the whole reason why they don't tell you where it's made because cheap goods cheapen the brand and put a lot less in the coffers....that's no conspiracy, just simple logic.

[jg1053]

Gentlemen,
105's,106's came into the country with "Made in Italy" as a sticker inside the front door, left side here I think. Why not have some made if that is what you want.
Jim

[L4OMEO]

that's no conspiracy, just simple logic.

I agree, as long as you're not calling it fraud.