Made in ...I don't know !

[ProvaRacing]

Yes I thought this subject would provoke interesting debate. Though some not so relevant. The question I asked on "Made in (insert country)" has nothing to do with origin of it's components, "local" content, Sth Africa etc.

I wanted to know why motor vehicle comsumers in Australia can be misled by the car companies importing cars into Australia.

It isn't the ACCC that requires "Made in Australia" infact they don't require any labelling. All they say is that the consumer not be intentionally deceived. My question to them was - when a car company puts out the press kit on release stating the new BMW/MERC is being built in Germany...and at year 2 of that same model it switches to Sth Africa/China is that not misleading? They could not answer it now but if that situation arises they will look at it. So as it has in the past, why not avoid it and help consumers by labelling WHICH COUNTRY THE CAR WAS PUT TOGETHER i.e. BUILT so when it changes the consumer won't call it deception, misleading or fraud!

And yes the reasons mentioned are correct, MD it is about money, yes WETPRICKLES it is embarrassing and thats why they want to avoid it...especially high ticket German companies. Pep105 no it isn't any different to a washing machine or any manufactured item - the components come from many different countries yet the complete finished item is still required to show "Made in _ _ _ _ _". Local content, origin of parts etc have to do with import duty and free trade agreements etc not what I am calling for. Just want cars to be labelled like a vacuum cleaner!

Just to test your own position of this issue ask yourself this question:

A Mercedes model costing $120,000 is totally made in Germany and also in China. Which one would you buy?

And here is the issue with the C-Class Mercedes, they got hammered in China with terrible local sales figures for their China made version - why? Because Chinese with money don't want their expensive Euro (status symbol) cars made by their "looked down on" brothers - ironic. And thus my point on this topic, up until now Alfa Romeo has been importing cars Made in Italy and gets little kudos yet it's competitors switch production midstream and make their cars in developing (old third world country label) and still charge huge retail prices - if I was looking to buy, in Australia, a Euro brand car made in Sth Africa I would expect a 30% discount, from China 50%. The consumer should be permitted to know just as the Customs dept insists a doll in a Two dollar shop display "Made in China".

Gentlemen,
105's,106's came into the country with "Made in Italy" as a sticker inside the front door, left side here I think. Why not have some made if that is what you want.
Jim

And so I did a few years ago...

[L4OMEO]

Bit of a non-issue in my eyes really. My feeling is that if it's important to the individual to know where a particular car is built then find out before you buy. If it offends your principles that the company is making greater profits through cheaper labour then vote with your feet and buy something else. If a company is doing wrong by their customers the market will soon tell them.

Cheers all

[Fast Eddie]

And so I did a few years ago...

you should get these made up and sell them... great sticker

[f1worldchamp]

I think the only reason this should bother anybody is if they believe their product is inferior because of where it's made.
Using the examples in this thread, if the German built C-Class and the Chinese built version were side by side, could you tell the difference? Is the driving experience any different between the German Golf and the Sth African one?
To my thinking, you are paying for the engineering and R&D that went in to the design of the car and it's components, which, as has been said, are manufacturered all over the world.
I can't really see the difference if it was Klaus or Chun Wee that turned the spanner to put them on.

Besides the fact that these days it's usually a robot that puts the cars together.
Do you want to know where the robot was built?

[meizhak]

. Just want cars to be labelled like a vacuum cleaner!

All cars must come with 17 digit vin number that has all the info reguarding its production, engine size trans etc

In the case of Nissan, vins starting with V- Built in spain J-Japan, S-UK, M-Thailand

So really every car is labelled with a made in"         "

[ProvaRacing]

Hmmm...haven't seen a vacuum cleaner yet that has a 17 digit vin number...just a "Made in Cazzo" label. And for your benefit meizhak in case you missed my opening post

I mean on any product it has to be seen clearly in type face large enough to read on the pack or product as it is sold to a consumer. Yet the motor industry manage to hide this from consumers, I am sure many people would like to know (or maybe they wouldn't) that;

"shortened quote"

I don't mean finding some manufacturer plate in some obscure part of an eng bay or translating some VIN number code to find country of origin, I mean a sticker on the windscreen....

Bit of a non-issue in my eyes really. My feeling is that if it's important to the individual to know where a particular car is built then find out before you buy. If it offends your principles that the company is making greater profits through cheaper labour then vote with your feet and buy something else. If a company is doing wrong by their customers the market will soon tell them.

Cheers all

;
Fair enough...so it would be ok then to remove all "Made in _ _ _ _" labelling on everything, including canned food etc. As you said let the market tell them if they aren't happy...except the people are wanting more labelling including knowning where their fresh produce comes from. Like the Chinese origin crops using human faeces as fertiliser (read about it its true).

I think the only reason this should bother anybody is if they believe their product is inferior because of where it's made.
Using the examples in this thread, if the German built C-Class and the Chinese built version were side by side, could you tell the difference? Is the driving experience any different between the German Golf and the Sth African one?
To my thinking, you are paying for the engineering and R&D that went in to the design of the car and it's components, which, as has been said, are manufacturered all over the world.
I can't really see the difference if it was Klaus or Chun Wee that turned the spanner to put them on.

Besides the fact that these days it's usually a robot that puts the cars together.
Do you want to know where the robot was built?

Now in the many years I've been in auto industry I have seen welding, corrossion dipping, painting and even component delivery to the operator but I am yet to see a robot that assembles engines, gearbox/transmission, diffs, drive shafts and plug them into the car etc etc. The bits that can loosened etc. Nor fit the door and roof trim, dash, seats etc You know the bits that creak with time. But hell yeah I want to know where this brilliant robot is built!

Now if you are telling me given the choice between a Klaus built or Chun Lee built over $100K German branded car you would choose the one that Mr Chang, Mr Chou and Mr Xie rejected themselves - well I do believe in being open minded...but so open as to be out of ones mind...no

BTW When I mentioned reference to HIV riddled Sth Africa it comes from a sister company setup over there and their biggest unknown was how many assemby workers would be turning up each day and keeping consistant skill levels due to illness (and death) from the spread of HIV...wasn't/isn't a joke...sadly true.

Anyway looks like there is no reasonable answer as to why the motor car is excluded, exempted and allowed to be a mystery as to which country it is made because it should be just like a Sweedish branded vacuum cleaner with an Italian motor clearly showing "Made in Sweden". Thanks for your participation guys.

[MD]

ProvaRacing-Somebody needs to buy you a beer man. !!

Rory, how does this sit with you :

You buy a well know Australian brand of shirt. You support Australian made goods and the local retailers.
The label is Australian, it says it's made in Australia, it's sold in an Australian store and not over the internet so where is the deception?

It lies in the very shirt itself because :

The fabric is imported
The dye in the fabric is foreign
The cotton thread used to make it is foreign
The buttons are foreign
The cardboard box that it came is foreign

So how is it Australian made? Wouldn't that just piss you off a little knowing that you are patriotic and paid through the nose to get this shirt but all the while it is only assembled in Australia?

Badge engineering and straight faced lies are the order of the day these days.

[L4OMEO]

Leaving aside the slightly bizarre comparison of t-shirts to automobiles, I think that anyone who makes a presumption on where a product is made based on the history, or origins, or brand values, or whatever about the company itself, is an idiot. In these days of globalisation your 'Aussie' product could be made anywhere, most likely where it can be done cheaper because that's how the company stays competitive. It's business, which means yes, it's about money, and we can all like or lump that.

In any case, most car manufacturers make plenty of noise about the fact they assemble on several continents and this is highly reported in the media. So where's the deception?

I don't really care where products come from as long as I'm satisfied with them and they do what they say on the box.

If you're offering to buy me a beer I'll have a Heineken (that's the Belgian beer which is made in 113 countries in the world but is brewed to higher quality standards in NZ than the home country).     

[MD]

Sorry Rory I'm all outta beers but I got a couple of corks left over if you're interested. 

Now look what you made me do ! I've gone form cars to corks- totally way off topic.

I think I need a drink myself...

Exit stage left...

[L4OMEO]

One of these days we should get together and separate a few corks from a few bottles. I reckon the conversation might be interesting!

Cheers mate, take care
Rory

[mozzie]

just like to share my opinion & what i have experienced as a mechanic working in the dealership network
if you think that where the car is assembled does not matter on the quality of the car  you are kidding yourself

i worked for a honda dealer when they changed from accord cars being built in japan to america
wow what a difference this only lasted 6 months & they stopped coming from america due to massive complaints & dissatisfied customers 

i also worked for a toyota dealership when they were getting corollas from south africa & japan for the same car
south african cars had much more brittle plastic as dash parts & was very difficult to remove pieces with out damage
they also had softer metal for the brake rotors & would not last more than 30,000 kms
i think that it is not right if two people buy the exact same car one would be forced to have extra maintainance cost
because it was assembled in another country

so in conclusion in my opinion it does matter where the car is manufactured.

[MD]

In days of old when knights were bold and women wore padlocks on their undies, Volkswagen had a plant in Melbourne making the renowned Beetle. They eventually shut the plant down for a very basic reason. Local workers and contractors couldn't (or wouldn't) produce the required quality cost effectively. For every quality control inspector employed by GMH at the time, Volkswagen had four.

Instead of compromising the quality of the product, the company pulled out of Oz.

Of course the workforce was much more unionised at the time and so there were quasi political issues tied into the lack of worker committment that would have had a bearing on the whole thing.

So does it matter where its made, absolutely !

[L4OMEO]

Gentlemen,

I don't argue with either of your posts. As I said earlier:

My feeling is that if it's important to the individual to know where a particular car is built then find out before you buy

Rory

[alfagtv100 (Biggus)]

If you're offering to buy me a beer I'll have a Heineken (that's the Belgian beer which is made in 113 countries in the world but is brewed to higher quality standards in NZ than the home country).      

Its Dutch.
You may be thinking of Stella.  The beer that has been brewed in Australia for a while now, yet doesn't taste much like Stella.
Heineken is also brewed in Australia and yes, tastes very unlike Heineken.  Actually it tastes very much like Australian Stella.
Both taste like Carlton.  This would be fine if they were Carlton.  However they are not.  This is not fine.

NZ Heineken may be produced to a higher standard than the original variety.  However, that doesn't count for much if it doesn't actually taste like Heineken.  Not that I have tried NZ Heineken.  I am sure its very nice.

Ever tried Australian Camembert or Brie cheese?  The types often featuring a gold label telling the world of an award the cheese won?  It is a big no-no in Australia to manufacture these cheeses exactly as in France.
Ever tried French Camembert or Brie?  Unlike the Australian versions, they actually taste quite different to each other.  One tastes and smells like Camembert.  The other has a very Brie-like flavour and aroma.  And the French don't have to point out how fine their cheese is.  Its accepted as common knowledge.

Its not necessarily where stuff is made that matters but how and with what level of craftsmanship and pride.

I agree with you L4OMEO.  "I don't really care where products come from as long as I'm satisfied with them and they do what they say on the box."

Hi-5.

Cheers,
Marco

[Sheldon McIntosh]

NZ Heineken may be produced to a higher standard than the original variety.  However, that doesn't count for much if it doesn't actually taste like Heineken.  Not that I have tried NZ Heineken.  I am sure its very nice.

It tastes like sparkling water with a hint of beer-coloured food dye.  A bit like some American beers, typified by Miller.  Interestingly enough, Miller is owned by the same company that owns Peroni, a very nice Italian beer, and one I enjoy very much.  They're both owned by SABMiller, from the ....

HIV riddled country of South Africa"