Alfetta GTV6s what are they like to live with

[Davidm1600]

Ok guys, so please educate me.  I have had two Alfettas in the past (both '76 models), one a GT the other a sedan (both were in nice condition), have had numerous 105s (still do) 1750 GTV, Giulia Supers, Berlina and currently have an '03 156 Sportwagon.  However, and possibly sacroligiously am considering selling the 156, not because I don't enjoy it or need it but some spare $$ could be useful for the impending SPAM rennos.  So, and if I do sell it, am wondering what to replace it with.

So the question that remains begging in my mind is what is a GTV6 like to live with as a daily driver. Is it an option worth considering, might it cost me serious $$$ to run and maintain or can it be an economical and sensible choice?   What are they like to drive, how does the gearbox compare to the earlier Alfettas.  I have noted for instance there are a few GTV6s currently available ('83-85) between $6800-11500 (white).  How economical are they (or not).  I note that they don't have power steering, is this really a problem in city driving, given that before the 156 I have only had one car that had power steering.   Am glad they seem to come with AC, how effective is this likely to be say compared to my 156 (note the AC on my 156 is excellent).  Do the power windows usually work ok, I had a Fiat 130 sedan with notionally electric windows, but in truth they were crap. 

What are parts costs like, what sorts of issues should I be aware of (mechanical, etc), and perhaps key servicing issues.   

Basically, any info would be helpful in order to try to make an informed decision. 

Dave

[alanm]

Hi David

I have a GTV6GP, better than average condition, maintained lovingly by myself and Maranello Pur Sang (if something doesnt work properly it gets fixed properly).
I have been commuting to and from work 3 or 4 days a week for a couple of years now, about 30 minutes each way in moderately heavy traffic.

In winter, spring and autumn the car generally presents no problems at all, when its cold the heater efficiently heats up the car efficiently, the rear demister does a good job. When the temperature is moderate, say 20 – 28 degrees I wind the windows, open the sunroof and drive around with a big smile on my face. Driving it again this morning for the first time in 3 weeks I remembered why I bought the car in the first place. What a joy, it just makes me feel good being in it – the looks, the sound, the feel, the charisma...

I would talk anyone into owning one of these cars (if you cant afford a Montreal) but I do avoid using it when the temperature goes over 30ish. The ventilation is nowhere near modern standards and the air conditioning (yes re-gassed) cannot cool the car. Maybe a combination of the large glass area at the back and primitive/non existent insulation? The air con blows out cold air, but it doesn't cool the interior of the car. I have thought an upgraded modern system would be a sensible mod to the car.

In regards to the maintenance costs, I spent about 4K on mine after I bought it to get it to the standard that I consider ideal and the car has been very reliable, though you do have  an enthusiasts willingness to tinker (I am guessing that you can tick that box). In regards to the gearbox, its fine, though mine is an 86 model, I gather Alfa refined the design so the gear change wasn't as clunky as the earlier models

You need to draw your own conclusions from my thoughts, but I like to have the option to use it or leave it at home and use the 156 depending on the weather.

Hope this is helpful!

Alan

[MD]

David 1750 (oops, I meant 1600)

I have owned nearly all the cars you mentioned and currently have a somewhat special version of a GTV6. I think I know and understand what it is you could be looking for. However, based on some of your reservations (which are all valid) I think you may have  much more contemporary expectation from this car than it can deliver as it was made decades ago in a different market place.

If we were to endulge a little and consider a scale of vehicle expectations from 0 being I dont really like cars much to 10 being the kind that sleeps with them, the GTV6 for an Alfa enthusiast would sit somewhere between 8.5 to 10. So it is a car that engages you and needs you to particiapte in it's upkeep, refinement, (dare I say development) and best of all a thorough work out at regular intervals without sparing it as this is where it really shines-on the limit.

If you are not comfortable with irrelevant let downs that require maintenance for nuisnace reasons. If you intend to hold back the reigns on this thoroughbred to and from work and choke it in traffic for most of its life, please don't buy one. This work is for automatics and not for a gearbox that isn't without it issues for some.

The air conditioning will suffice to cool a couple of moths under the dashboard. The air speed is insufficient and the fan noise is a good deterrent not to use it in the first place. If by chance it cools, it does a great job of freezing knee caps while the rest of you is in the sauna.

But electric windows, airconditioning, fuel economy and a sheit load of other  expectations from buyers these days have nothing to do with sports cars. True sports cars have a minimalist approach with an eye on power to weight issues and comforts take a back seat position.

I may be wrong but I judge you not to be a minimalist kind of guy and would therefore suggest that 156 type of approach is where you really are and getting a GTV6 ( great a car that it is) is not suited to you and I can see a lot of pain down the track....

As for me, when I get into mine, I undergo a metamorphosis. I get sweaty palms and develop a goofey grin. The cape around my neck often gets in the way and always wants to blow out the open window when we are on the move.. The "Y" front underpants on the outside of my trousers invariably don't match the colour of the rest of Mr Invincible's get up but I am oblivious. I am going for an Italian tune up..

[ProvaRacing]

All valid points MD but I think you forgot David1750 isn't just a modern Alfa driver, as compared to his three 1969 beauties a 1986 GTV will be "lusso" plus!

PS I know it was a even huge leap in comfort from a 1969 AC to a 1976 CC.

PSS I have looking (haven't tested yet) at those GTV6's too David...but I want rosso!

[lombardi]

What about the rosso bellissima in the vic alps,looks magic,i think he wants about $15,000.00,looks beaut though-i have dreams about this car.rgrds

[ProvaRacing]

What about the rosso bellissima in the vic alps,looks magic,i think he wants about $15,000.00,looks beaut though-i have dreams about this car.rgrds

Good point lombardi...now maybe I've been under pressure but I looked at it the other day and now I can't find it...it's embarrassing I know can you give me a hint?

I wanted to ask the owner if they use salt on the road in Bright and as it is a long way away I need to be certain it's worth the trip to inspect...though from the pics and description it could well be.

BTW you or anyone else remember an article in a high class intellectuals publication called...Playbunny or Bunnyboy or something...great articles, anyway I have kept these pages since 1982 and it still brings a tear to my eye on the road test Rob Luck did in the new GTV6 in Italy. If you haven't seen it I wil post it up in a new thread.

[Davidm1600]

Hey cheers guys for the really excellent feedback, and it is precisely the sort of information I needed to read about and hear.  You can't beat 1st hand knowledge. I have read heaps about them over the years but somehow have always managed to miss out on having a ride/drive in one.

Ok just to clarify a few things, for yes Alan, I am most definitely a hands on guy.  Hey I have previously restored a number of Italian cars, including my '69 AC Fiat 124 sport (which i still own after 30 years and 3 restorations), and helped my brother on some of his cars.  Let alone the pain I am going through in restoring my Giulia Super and yes then there is still the '69 1750 GTV to do.  As to the need for an occasional Italian Tune Up, gees well from my first Fiat to 1750 GTV, I am well versed in this need.  I have a number of special roads just suited perfectly for this need.  

So to also clarify MD's concerns, my 156 is the first "new" car I have ever owned.  Also the most expensive.  Prior to buying it, the 1750 GTV was my daily driver for 11 years.  The real reason I only stopped using it was that the rust was getting a little too nasty and the paint knackered.  Ditto it really needs some additional mechanical improvements.  So to protect it given I wasn't ready to undertake this project I parked it under covers in my lockup garage.

I guess the other thing perhaps to clarify is that I use the term of daily driver fairly loosely as I probably only drive my cars maybe a few times a week and mostly on weekends, given I get a lift to work and home with the missus and/or alternatively can walk/catch a bus.  The wifey's car is a '97 BMW 318is sedan.  My driving includes a fair bit of country driving.

However, the comments re the 80's level of AC refinement is noted.  Ditto the gearchange improvements on later models which I was basically aware of.  Hey until I bought the 156, my idea of AC had always been to open the windows, so I am very used to not brilliant ventilation, but I enjoyed the description of the system

Ok, so the best way to think of a GTV6 is that they are a great drivers car, (no surprises there given the superb v6 note), classic in style (ditto) but definitely need to be realistic that they are not like a modern car.  Not a problem there.  In a way I kind of have been missing driving my classics, the involvement in it, even as much as I have enjoyed the refinement of the 156.  I think it is pretty clear I do like my sports cars, and yes I am currently missing very much out on involvement in club level motorsport.  THe sportwagon is not really the car for this sort of thing.

So I guess all of the above also indicates I am perfectly well versed in the curiosity of old cars, their peculiarities, the occasional let downs, as well as the need for maintenance.  The 156 has been the model perfect as far as an Alfa goes, but then again actually my GTV so rarely has let me down in the past.  

I have to say MD your description, as per also Alan's cracked me up re the sweaty palms etc.  Bugger it, it is a real pity there isn't one here to try out to see what they are like. Thanks though for your help though it is appreciated.

Well I will see what happens next, as I have a guy comming around to look at the Sportwagon tonight, to see if it is what he is looking for.  I won't be giving the wagon away, as it has been well very well maintained.

Cheers also ProvaRacing, for I know precisely what you mean re the difference between the AC to the CC.  Suprisingly quite a lot !!

If you do get the chance to check any out I will be interested in seeing what you think, it can be a little difficult when trying to buy a car at a distance.  I know I have done this now 3 times (my '73 Berlina, '69 GTV and the 156).  

I know a few people here with GTV6s so will try to see if I can finally get a ride/drive of one to understand them better.  Goodluck ProvaRacing in finding that Rosso one you are after.

[MD]

Well David I think I understand you a little better now. Good luck with your choices down the track.
As for what are they like? How do they go? What makes them special? At the end of the day to use words to describe one's own perceptions about ANY Alfa is a bit like reading someone elses verbose description of what a particular chocolate tastes like. All Alfas have a kind of "presence" about them and yet they will drive differently-even the same model different car with the same specs. So the short answer is you gotta suck it and see.

What I can say in general (others may agree or disagree)is that the 2.5V6 is not a sprinter. It's not a car you want to pick drag races with as the mostly likely result will be some bits in the gearbox and some more bits or coupling rubber on the roadway. It's a machine that likes to do the business at the other end of the speedo dial where other drivers have white knuckles hanging on for dear life because the front end is lifting and the steering is getting light. At this point the GTV hunckers down and quietly says, let's get it on. This starts around 160 plus.

So when you have a test drive and politely drive it around the block being the good citizen and not breaking any speed limits bear that in mind because I fear you just may come away with quandry asking yourself, what's so good about these bloody things ??!!

Of course this is just my experience with them and others will have a different point of view but then we are talking about chocolates aren't we ??

[pep105]

Dave
Based on whats been said Id say go for it, you already have a bit of a collection going so a GTV6 will compliment your garage perfectly, you need a transaxle in your lineup. Especially as you have the opprtunity to other modes of transport and on the other hand the GTV6 will get sufficient use which is important. Its definately a car with plenty of brio with a slightly diferent flavour to what your used to. Also youve got the marvellous Tassie roads to blow the cobwebs out when it requiries its weekly italian tune up.

A mate of mine who posts on this forum, (Unico) in March last year sold his 2 year old Fiesta Zetec and bought a white GTV6 as a daily driver. A few people we know thought he needed his head examined, I thought it was a good move   He had a couple of things sorted when he bought it (timing belt, steering rack etc) and it covers a fair distance every day (mostly freeway driving) but its still going strong and with regular maintainence which hasnt been that expensive shes a beauty mate.  Ok so the aircons not great (does it get that hot in Tassie ?) the electrics are average but thay can be fixed. Hopefully he will post his own impressions first hand.

If theres one you like in Melbourne, let me know id be more than happy to check it out for you
               

[L4OMEO]

Hi Dave

I think most people here are on the money. I've driven numerous GTV6s but only owned the one. This was my only car at the time so it was used for everything - commuting, shopping, moving house, track days, and simply driving for enjoyment. Obviously it was better suited to some of those functions than others, but it did surprise me how well it covered the other bases too. Compared with a modern car it feels a bit cumbersome in traffic with no power steering and a clumsy gearchange, but that does mean you tend to drive with some concentration where you might mentally switch off in more modern vehicles. Not a bad thing really. I actually got some perverse pleasure from commuting in it ... can anyone else understand that or am I wierd?

[Then again, the GTV6 was a limo in comparison with the Alfasud racecar I previously commuted in .... that open, side exhaust in an underground carpark had to be heard to be believed, although it really needed to hit 5500rpm when it came on cam for best effect, and that was a bit quick in there. And extracting yourself from a full cage in a suit & tie is not very dignified. Ok, for the work run that one was probably a step too far.]

Anyway, the GTV6 - as already mentioned it's naturally at its best when driven in spirit, when things just 'click' and you have that moment of clarity on why you bought it.

Mine had a few mods (Konis, Colombo & Barriani cams, Momo wheel, modified gearlinkage) which all helped improved it as a drivers car for me, but - cams aside - didn't compromise its useability in town at all.

The other guys here probably know more about the maintenance and servicing side of ownership than I do, I was fortunate to have a factory-trained Alfa mechanic who loved my car so much he serviced it for free     

Buy, enjoy.
Rory

[scuzzyGTV]

hi dave

whilst i cant comment on the ownership/use of the GTV6, i can help on the daily driver side of the 116 in Hobart.

as far as the "traffic" goes we both know how little there actually is here.

generally speaking they are pretty good in traffic, although mine wasnt too happy on the hotter days. they are pretty easy to park, either in the carparks or kerb side and are possibly a bit stiff for normal town driving, feeling ever sudden height change through your seat. but as we all know there are some excellent roads close by and you'll enjoy it immensely. As for the ac/temp, if it's a dark colour car, then it'll get pretty hot inside as our solar heat gains are pretty high for our latitude (thanks hole in ozone layer), but I have seen that MD has upgraded an ac system on a 116 (thread somewhere here) and I'm sure if you did similar, then you'd be happy with the results.

having said that, i'd use mine everyday if i could, with the exception of parking, as i hate having my cars run into/dented (its happened a few times with the subaru).

as far as making the decision goes, I think you choose well either way.

good luck

scott.

[Davidm1600]

Hey thanks heaps again fellas, for there are some great insights into this topic which is most inciteful to me.  Well to continue from where I left off, the guy (Ben) liked my 156 sportwagon and is really very interested.  He sent me another e-mail this morning to confirm that.  So,  he left it with me to decide if I need to sell the wagon, and if so, the next thing to do will be to work out a reasonable price for it. 

From what I have gathered there aren't too many manual JTS wagons in good nick and relatively low KMs on the clock like mine around at the moment, so that may be a plus for me as to its price/value.  Had better do a quick check on-line to see what they are going for.  For the whole point of the excercise is to generate some spare $$ to add to what I already have to complete the SPAM rennos.  Hey great, flog the Alfa to build a SPAM to keep the wifey happy.  Mind you that is an important consideration as we all know 

The other reason I am taking this a little carefully is as I want to ensure I am being logical in my decision making rather than simply going with the heart. Which when we are discussing Alfas as you well know can be a little difficult.  I hadn't thought I had any real emotional attachment to the 156 unlike my 105s but not so. However, I need to be practical, and I really don't want to add to the mortgage, as that seems to me to be going backwards.

So I think I will have to sell the wagon and then look for a cheaper replacement, such as perhaps a GTV6 or an alternative

MD, I hear you what you are saying re each car being different and how we might perceive them.  This too is also true for the 156, my brother for instance admires them but wouldnt want to have it, as it is too modern for him.  Ditto my brother in law is not even interested in it though loves his Alfas, he is happy to drive his Giulia Super as his daily car.  I also hear what you are saying re the 2.5 not being a sprinter, thats cool for I have never had such a car anyway, and was certainly aware that the GTV6 in standard form is not a rocket.  That is probably not what I want anyway.  I am more into a car that is comfortable to drive, good for long journeys and yet can be at least a little practical.  Hence a modern GTV given how little space it has in the rear would be any use to me.  I know I could always say buy a cheaper older 156 sedan ??  or even perhaps a 75 or 90 but having been in them, I am not sure that is what I am after. 

I also hear what you are saying re the quite and good citizen test drive might highlight to me.  All perfectly understood and yes we are discussing choccies !!

Pep mate, you probably are quite correct re the collection and yes a transaxle could indeed be the go !! We certainly do have some excellent ALFA roads for sure down here.  Good also to hear the story of your mate's experiences.  Can someone perhaps shed some light on the timing belt issue with GTV6s. I am well familiar with this issue on the 156, is this a similar matter for a GTV6 and hence cost to factor in?  This sort of thing doesn't worry me, I just think it would be helpful to understand and perhaps the intervals for such belt replacements.   Pep, cheers also for the offer to check some cars out for me, that could be really helpful.  There are currently 2 white GTV6s for sale on Carsales, one an '83 model supposedly in fantastic condition?? for $6800 ono, has konis, momo, new windscreen, headlights, but not the belts done recently, oil has been changed supposedly.  The car is located in Ivanhoe owned by a guy called Ben.  I can get in touch to find out his contact details. The other car is a little more expensive:  a '85 model for $10,990, serviced by Per Sang motors, (I know of them), also supposed to be in good nick, has had the belts recently changed, serviced, inc tension of the heads, gearbox in good nick, ditto the clutch, with Pirelli P6s and a stainless steel exhaust, etc.  The owner's name is David and lives in Brunswick.

Thanks also Rory for all the feedback and encouragement, I reckon you must have been onto a winner there with free servicing, how cool was that  .  As to your previous toy, the Sud racer, I can certainly imagine what a hoot that would have been, especially giving great tunnel, but as a daily driver it might have been a little tiring for certain.  Huge grin factor though !!   

Lastly Scott, having previously owned a Metalic blue Alfetta GT and then later on a Navy Blue 1.8 sedan (the one owned by Tristan Roberts but with the V6 in it now), I am well familiar what dark cars can be like.  Lucky for me, when I owned these cars they came with tan interiors.  I must admit white cars are not my favourite (even though I have had a few) and the wifeys Beemer is white, but somehow on the GTV6 I think it actually suits it well.  Silver is probably my least favourite colour for them, though a good one is definitely nice. 

And ah yes I do know what you mean re Hobart traffic.  From NewTown into the city is a breeze, and even between here and the country property at Sorell is not a real issue, say apart from first thing in the morning over the bridge might be a little painful, if timed wrong.

I might have to check out MD's thread on the AC conversion since I know what you mean re temps here, they can definitely get hot due to the clearer skies. 

Thanks everyone, I suspect I am kind of talking myself into the change in cars and perhaps just needed to confirm I am not making an idiot of myself !!!   

[alanm]

Hi David

Just picking up on a couple of your points:
I find the seats in the GTV6 extremely comfortable on long trip. That one might depend on phisique, I am 6ft, built like a greyhound.
Cam belts and tensioners every 3 years, allow about $1000
Work done by Pur Sang on the white car will be done right. Giancarlo (ex Pur Sang now merged with Maranello Motors) might recall the car.

Alan

[Davidm1600]

Thanks Alan, definitely another good thing to be aware of re mechanical issues.  Good to know the seats are comfy, the 156s are superb but ditto are the seats in my '69 1750. So appreciate all such positive feedback. 

I have had an e-mail with the ph contact for the guy with the white one serviced by Pur Sang, and it could be a smart move to talk to them directly re the car. It is always a bit more risky when you trying to buy something at a distance and you can't actually check it out yourself. 

It looks like so long as I am happy with the offer on my 156 that it is sold, as I have an offer on it.  Am going to discuss it with the wife tonight, to see what she thinks we should do. 

Oh I had meant to ask another dumb question before, I pretty certain that the rear seat isn't a split seat arrangement ?? but does the GTV6 have gutters, it is just that it could be handy so that I can carry my Mini mal surfboard or skis, if using the car for such trips.  Dave

[MD]

No split seat.
Has gutters.

I forgot to say that this car has a peculiar seating position which may or may not suit you. Particularly the angle and tension on the throttle which can give you stiff ankle over longish distances. I had to modify mine. ( it's one of the reasons why I said you need to be tinkerer and perfect things on it to suit yourself).