Alfetta GTV petrol?

[DBonelli]

Hi,

I own a 1978 GTV 2l. I recently had problems with the car blowing a large poof of white smoke when taking off from sitting idle at the lights. At first people were telling me brake fluid was getting into the 4th cylinder but this was not the case. I'd filled the car up with Shell premium V-power fuel for the first time with little thought to this fuel not suiting the car. After I bought this up with my mechanic he told me this premium Shell fuel is a no go with older carburettor engines, some additives are no good. He recommended BP ultimate. He wasn't sure if Caltex 98 Vortex is okay or not. This is what I usually run, and found no problems. I'd just like to hear from others what they'd recommend. I live 400 metres from a Caltex, the nearest BP is about a 10 minutes away, I'm happy to do the 10 minute drive if recommended.

Darren

[STRADALE]

HI Darren

you should not have any problems running v power you could even advance your ignition for a little extra performance. your alfa should run better on higher octane fuel, I used v power in my sportiva for years no problems.
white smoke or was it steam [head gasket] check your oil and coolant
Sometimes depending where the gasket fails you get.......water in oil.....or......oil in water....or water in the combustion chamber it goes out the exhaust as steam

Glen

[Sheldon McIntosh]

I recently had problems with the car blowing a large poof

I would also be upset by this.  I tell all my cars that they're a one-man vehicle.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Sorry.  But seriously, the fuel issue has been covered a few times on this forum.  From what I gather from the chemists here, there is very little difference in the premium fuels.  Shell had for a while a "racing" fuel (don't remember the exact name) which had added ethanol to lift the octane a bit.  That would be a definite no-no on an Alfetta, and I think they've dropped it (?), but as far as I know all the other 98s are just fine.  I've always been a BP man, and never had any problems, but I've also heard that Mobil is very good.  Given BPs complete cock-up recently I might give Mobil a go.

[DBonelli]

Thanks for the information. I've had the car at the mechanics who do old Alfas and they couldn't find any fault. The fuel thing was something I bought up after a week of searching for answers and that was the advice given to me as a possibility. The smoke seems white, but interestingly when it first happened it was a huge puff, I drove it a little more and it would seem fine for a while but every so often it would happen again, it seems to have become less and less concentrate as time goes. Car doesn't seem to have lost any power. My mechanic also suggested it could be engine wear and I'd be up for a rebuild in 12 or so months. I'm not so convinced because the motor has done 140k and I'm really certain the smoke is quite white. Sorry to bring up fuels again, this is the first time I've ever used the net to ask questions. Hahahaha blowing a large poof, classic.

[minipete]

A puff of smoke when taking off after idling usually indicates worn valve guides or stem seals.  Would normally be blue smoke though.

I haven't pulled an Alfa motor apart yet to know whether they have valve stem seals.   Someone on here will know.

White smoke can indicate coolant burning, possible head gasket problem.  If so then the combustion gases would also be getting into the coolant so you would get mayo on the radiator cap.

A leak down test would confirm this.

The guy who builds my race engine has an engine dyno and reckons BP and Mobil 98 are both good.  Optimax can cause plug fouling in older engines.

Pete

[alfagtv152]

Hi Darren,
Why have you dismissed the notion of brake fluid?.I can not see how fuel will cause this,if you had decellerated using engine braking with high revs before taking off at the lights you may have caused a build of oil that you would not normally have making the smoke.I have had personal experience with white smoke from brake fluid,this comes from fluid build up inside the booster which has slowly been drawn from the piston in the master cylinder via a worn or incorrectly fitted seal,mine was actually an incorrectly fitted seal at the back of the master cylinder.If you create an abnormal amount of vacuum or angular G force,hard  cornering,the fluid can be sucked into #4 cylinder via the vacuum valve on the inlet manifold from the booster.You should look inside the booster and see if there is any fluid in it,it is possible!.
Cheers
Andrew

[bt46]

The guy who builds my race engine has an engine dyno and reckons BP and Mobil 98 are both good.  Optimax can cause plug fouling in older engines.

Hi Pete. Are you able to elaborate on optimax causing plug fouling?

[STRADALE]

Hi All

As far as I know none of the higher octane fuels are refined in Australia it all comes from indonesia any difference between the brands must be addivitives mixed here post delivery
I use the shell product regularly through convenience the servo is 200 mtrs away so the only time I change brands is if I need to fill away from home,
I have had no issues with fouling or poor running from using optimax in both 4cyl points ignition and 6 cyl efi Alfas



          [I'm not defending shell products, just sharing an opinion based on my experiece]

Glen

[bt46]

Hey Glen. I dont want to start an internet arguement I am just genuinely interested in the comment that optimax causes plug fouling. My current alfa fouls plugs for no good reason. A little oil build up but not excessive. If i clean the plug it still refuses to work. Previously with other alfas I have always been able to clean my plugs and keep using them if they foul or even give the car the good old italian tuneup to resolve the issue. Kind of reminds me of the rev limiters we use on the gokarts at work. They cause plugs to stop firing every now and then. Its like something in the core of the plug is burnt out. Oh i should add I use optimax when ever I can.
Cheers
dean

[STRADALE]

Hi Dean

Is your car a four or a six and what plugs do you use
I always used golden lodge plugs in my nord engine once a week pulled them out and cleaned them
but in my GTV6 I use bosch surface discharge plugs I clean them when I do an oil change every six months
If you are having fouling issues you might need to change the heat range or brand, for some reason i cant get CHAMPION sparks plugs to work properly for me in the six and my nord engine hated NGK's
Maybe it was the fuel and not the plugs one thing I do know about 10 years ago i filled up with fuel from a BOGAS station near grafton on the NSW north coast car ran like shit for weeeeeks apparently it was an ethonal fuel with a high % of ethonal not sure how much but I knew not to buy BOGAS again
I'm thinking the fouling issues that some are experiencing might be a combination of fuel, plugs and engine wear [oil fouling] who knows like the BOGAS with me if your car doesent like a particular fuel then avoid it  

Glen

[bt46]

Hi Glen.
Its a 2lt. I use NGK bp7es or bp6es. I have always used these plugs or 2hl's as long as I can remember. Never had this issue with other engines and I guess i have had half a dozen over the years. I have had engines that foul plugs but you can always clean them. Not this one. She a stubborn girl. Thats why i was interested in the optimax comment as thats all i use unless needed. Happy to try some other plugs or maybe I should stick with another fuel and see what happens.
Its kind of odd how it happens.......i was heading to phillip island for the alfa day and the car just dropped a plug. One would think a cruze on the highway would be cleaning them up? Its also random cylinders. Any way the engine is strong and comp tests well so im going to leave it alone. It has in fact only done 70 000k's and has never had the head of so im hoping after 30 years that gasket is fused in there like a bitch and I aint touching it. I just carry around some spare plugs and tools.
Cheers
Dean

[STRADALE]

Hi Dean

If your cars head has never been off you might be getting some oil into the combustion chamber through the valve stem oil seals ?
What do think the chances are that maybe it was a bad batch of fuel, Im sure they test fuels on a regular basis but you never know, there was a batch of fuel delivered to a station here a few yrs back the tanker still had thousands of litres of solvent in it then was topped up with petrol, dozens of cars had mechanical issues they traced it back to the fuel from that station, there were lots of claims for damage in the end they had to pay up.
I use the NGK 6's on engines that burn a bit of oil the hotter plug burns the oil off .

Glen

[bt46]

Yes Glen the motor does burn oil on overrun. The stem seals on the inlet side are most likley as hard as rocks. I was thinking of getting benincas to do the stem seals as they can do them without removing the head. Its just one of those things that isnt a huge issue so I may as well leave it alone.

[STRADALE]

you can replace oil seals without removing the head a few different ways, one with compressed air and another way i tried was by pushing rope down the cylinder then rolling the piston up to push against it and the valve, worked fine even if it is a little unsophisticated