Best way to access the alfetta transaxle?

[Craig C]

I've read some interesting posts about how 'easy' it is to remove the transaxle and was wondering which is the best method.

(I lost second gear at Sandown last weekend and asume I need new synchros)

One approach is to just remove the unit so the gear set can be worked on on the bench.

Another is to take out the whole back section, suspension, De Dion and wheels so it can be just wheeled out from under the body.

And the third is to remove the cross beam and clutch housing, tilt the transaxle in place and then slide out the gear set.

Given this will be my first attempt which is the best /easiest?

thanks

[STRADALE]

the best way for a first timer I think is to take out the the transaxle and  de dion tube [A frame] together its only a few extra bolts for the shocks and watts link anyway, and with the transaxle out you can clean out the transaxle housing and test the functions of the gear selectors [reverse can be a bugger for a first timer] before you put the box back in the car
one thing I do is undo the driveshafts remove the discs and brake calipers from  the transaxle and leave the calipers with the car [wire or cable tie them up]  by doing this you dont have to bleed the brakes just bolt them back up. I have done this job many times before. Just post questions if you need help


Glen    

[Martyn]

Agree with Sportiva 22 removing transaxle complete with de dion is the easiest way to go assuming like me you have no hoist and a couple of hydraulic jacks. I leave brakes on when removing as you can put two steel rods each side of transaxle(old torsion bars are excellent) one end rest on de dion at watts link end and the other on rail supporting transaxle . This will make it easier as the rods stop the half shafts dropping and in turn the  transaxle so that you can wheel the whole lot out on one trolley jack.
Sportia 22 idea is sound if the half shaft bolts come out easily , they are captive head (allen key ) quite often they will not budge and using angle grinder with thin disc is the only way to remove.
Good luck
Regards
Martyn

[jimnielsen]

taking out the complete transaxle without the cross member or the dedion,is probably easier, i have done it each of these ways many times, and at least the 'complete' method is less messy and makes it easier not to get dirt on the gear-set if you are doing this all on a garage floor with jacks. As far as the hex headed bolts that hold the 1/2 shafts on.. buy a brand new (so that is is not worn) 6mm hex driver with 1/2" socket drive, use a wobble bar (so that the angle of the hex drive can be straight) and if there is any sign of slippage, use small vice grips on the outside of the hex head turning both at the same time. If you ruin the hex hole, things can get tricky.

often, on a standard car, removing the exhaust can be the most frustrating part of the whole experience!

[STRADALE]

 Hi CraigC
My advice is to take out the A frame it will take you longer but in the long run it will be less frustrating
once you pull the box out and work on it you will have a greater understanding of the workings of both the gearbox and the suspension and next time you need to work on the gear box you can make up your own mind on how best to approach it

If I need to fix leaking oil seals or similar I leave the rear half of the transaxle in the car  but if I have bigger issues I pull the whole transaxle out.
If your syncros are badly worn I would pull the transaxle out of the car put it on a bench and clean it out including all the oil galleries between the diff housing and the gearcase.
the crunching noise from worn syncros is not the helical cut gears crunching together
its the syncro hubs they move with the action of the gear lever and the dog gears they are connected to the helical gears they have small teeth on them like picket fencetops when they crunch they often brake off thats why you need to clean out the box.
The gear set is easy to work on, but not foolproof so take it easy pulling it down and have plenty of space to lay out all the bits, the mainshaft has steps machined in it so the gears can really only go back in there original places.
One point there are shims on the main shaft either side of the intermediate flange these are to set the mainshaft pinion height in the diff crownwheel if you mess these up you could end up with a  diff whine


Glen

[aggie57]

Hi Craig,

One thing I will add is that these are very heavy items.  Even if you're used to handling gearboxes, the transaxle has clutch, gearbox, diff and brakes is one unit.  

We've pulled many out over the years and I don't think it's actually about how much experience you have but what sort of access you have.  If you're working under a car on stands then removing the transaxle on it's own can be an extremely frustrating experience just to get it past the de dion.  Personally though I've never bothered removing the de dion with it, I've always left it in place unless it has to come out anyway.

If you have a hoist or good access under the car, far and away the the easiest way is to leave the transaxle housing in place as you suggest and just remove the gear set.  You have to do that anyway, once the clutch is off there's only a few bolts holding it in place and and it's actually quite light in comparison.  Once you done it the first time you'll never do it any other way.

Alister

[STRADALE]

HI Craig


Put the car up on stands climb under and have a good look at how it all bolts together
then make a decision for yourself on how best to get the job done, whatever frustrations
you encounter they will all be erased when you drive off with the satisfaction of knowing you fixed it yourself

Glen

[Craig C]

Thanks for all of the advice, some very useful tips in there.

Looks like my next step this weekend will be to crawl under, have a look and see what access I can set up with some big blocks.

Craig

[dehne]

personally i would take the whole arse end out as this can be done in less than an hour. i take the wheels off when removing but once its out i put them back on so i can wheel it around makes life easier if doing by urself and whilst its out give it a real good clean and when all is done and fixed before you put it back in the car fill the oil up and add either slick 50 or the nelon g70 i think as this helps the gears change smoother
good luck

[STRADALE]

Denhe

Filling the gearbox out of the car saves a lot of fiddeling around as does martyns tip of placing  torsion bars to support the gearbox on the A frame  
I'm not too sure about additives in gearboxes. I have used the nulon product before.
A good quality GL5 gear oil is all i use now,
I think additives make the balking rings [syncros] less effective [there to slippery]
As you already know syncros are brakes to slow the inertia of the moving parts as the gears engage, if its to slippery the syncros dont work as well as they should causing the dog teeth to crunch and grind.  Alfa used a Porsche designed balking ring system there great when there new but they do wear out quickly and i doubt any modern manual gearbox would use this system now

Cheers Glen

[dehne]

ive used the nelon one in my older alfas for 10 years with no prob at all the box seems to change better and smoother i have use slick 50 once and it was really good but its at the pricy and of the field

[Martyn]

Support Paul Edwards choice of Redline synthetic oil. I have only recently converted to it and wish i had spent the extra money sooner.Raced it around PI Wanneroo & Collie cant believe its the same gearbox. Usually get through two set of synchros on first & second gear each season so far have a full year on current set.
Yeah I know that these porsche type  synchros should have mineral based oil ,thats the theory, I know what works best in practice. Redline synthetic.
The above comment is sure to keep this post going a bit longer!
Regards
Mart yn

[STRADALE]

martyn

What is the viscosity of redline oil  I mean does it flow easily like synth engine oils do
And do you use additivies with it also is it economical for road cars. ???SORRY!!!!!
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, perhaps we should use our collective knowledge of the gearbox and how to work on them and share that in another tech post about gearboxes and our experiences working on them,for people who might have questions re overhauls or maintainence [just a thought]
I know its been done before on other forums but i thought some local content might keep it interesting  and also information about local parts suppliers could be helpfull. all in the interest of helping other alfa owners of course


Glen  

[STRADALE]

Hi paul

Maybe in response to a question we could have photos of the different components that make up the gear set and a brief explanation of how they work or why they wont. Then others could contribute with tips, ideas or opinions on how best to correct a problem.  

1 Dog teeth where the grinding noises eminate
2 This is what happens when the 1st gear goes BANG