not happy ..... !!!

[Park147]

I have a 2002 147 Selespeed and have just gone through the expensive replacement of 16 smashed valves due to a timing belt blowout.
The job was done by the fantastic and helpfull Ital Service here in Adelaide. After this the car went beautifully after I reset the accelerator.

The car didn't miss a beat on a trip to Melbourne and back and I was very happy to be driving again.
Then on my way home from work, in peak traffic it stopped ....... Called the RAA (RACV/NRMA equivalent) who diagnosed that the injectors were not injecting ...... so I had the car towed home.

Connected the laptop with 'Fiat ECU scan' software to the car and up came the error of no Lambda(1) signal. This made sense to me as if the ECU doesn't know how much O2 is in the exaust manifold then it doesn't know how to calculate the correct mixture and the injectors shut down.
So I've obtained a new Lambda sensor and installed.

Started the car and hooked up the laptop again to monitor the sensors and just in case it stopped again I stayed in the driveway ...... didn't want to get stuck again in the rain and the cold.

After running the car, changing gears and revving etc all seemed to be well .... Then after about 10 mins it stopped again!
Software said no signal from the RPM sensor!

Ok .... I thought maybe if I reset the ECU and reset the Accelerator it may clear the problem. So I disconnected the battery for an hour ..... put the Key in and turned to Mar for 90secs then off for 90secs and started the engine for the 15mins of idle. It got to about 10mins and stopped .... laptop said the error was still the RPM sensor.
So I consulted the manual that I have on CD but can't quite work out where the RPM sensor is.
By this time I'm cold, hungry, pissed-off and flattened the battery.

So here I am hopeing the problem is not the ECU unit and ready for bed as it looks like ive got to get up early tomorrow again to catch 3 busses to work.

Any one have any idea what my problem is? I don't have the money to go to the rip off Dealer (they wanted $520 for a Lambda sensor but I managed to get one for $195) so I need to fix this myself. I've found the connector for the RPM sensor ... but am unsure where the actual sensor is .... it may just need a clean of its gap.

Has anyone had a problem like this and if so how was it fixed.
I love to drive this car ..... best car I've driven  and would like to get it to be a lot more reliable.

Help! (please)

Richard
Ps would love to get the remote on the Key working as well as its a hastle to open the hatch door from the inside all the time ... but this is minor compared to the main problem!

[ozchips]

cannot help you with anything , but maybe able to help with the key
what is the problem ?
When i got mine thedude saidthe battery needed repalcing , dead simple job and the type of battery canbe found anywhere .
I did this and only the boot release worked , the micro switch had goen in the other .a quick soldering job (that is what i do) and away we went again .
any two polar micro switch should work and about $1.50 from Jaycar

[Park147]

Argh ... the Key that came with the car had no battery nor even the tray for the battery. Yes only one Key.
As I see it the Key has three parts 1 the mechanical Key 2 the chip and 3 the remote locking. The Key opens the door and starts the car so I can assume the little code chip is ok. The remote section seems to be a seperate device and acts on a receiver under the dash. So being a former electrician and a bit handy with electronics, I soldered in a new battery being carefull to get the polarity correct. all the microswitches appear to work as the led on the key flashes about once a second when pressing any one of them but it fails to activate any of the locks. Is there a correct sequence of button presses to program the key with the car once the battery has been changed or is it that I need to go to the Ripoff Dealer to get the key reprogramed?

[John Hanslow]

I see that you re mechanically minded however you had the issue with the belt as you were not given the heads up on that issue.

I have a 2002 147 Selespeed and have just gone through the expensive replacement of 16 smashed valves due to a timing belt blow-out.

Perhaps if you take the car to an Alfa specialist who understands the nature of the marque and can offer a some what cheaper alternative to a dealer.  They are a helpful bunch. Mauceri,  Monza Motors, Maranello or the Italian Job are a few.  Also you can get options with original and aftermarket parts.

Also being familiar common issues, you can get a heads up on preventative maintenance, i.e. replacing the belt every 3 years or 60,000kms as belt failure is an example of a few dollars spent is cheaper than valve replacement.  Not well known in the trade or uninitiated but in excusable for those who should.

Good luck with your efforts.

[Park147]

Thanks John,
Yes I should have had the car checked out by 'someone who Knows' before I purchased it in January. I am much wiser now. Here in Adelaide Ital Service is an Alfa Specialist and as I Said, Mario and Luigi (no they are not brothers) are very helpfull. Not sure this is a common problem though and it perplexes me that I fix one error (lambda sensor) only to have the same problem indicated by a second error (RPM sensor), unrelated, and yet both acting on stopping the injectors.
Would still like to know where the RPM sensor is - according to the manual it has only one bolt holding it in so it shouldn't be too hard to pull out and inspect.

[ozchips]

fuse for the locks ?

[Park147]

Yep fuse ok as the doors lock and unlock ok with the mechanical key and the button on the dash - just the remote not working.
Good suggestion though but I think it was one of the first things I checked. Same with the fuel injectors.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Mario and Luigi (no they are not brothers)

Nice one.  Not plumbers either then?

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Thanks John,
Yes I should have had the car checked out by 'someone who Knows' before I purchased it in January. I am much wiser now. Here in Adelaide Ital Service is an Alfa Specialist and as I Said, Mario and Luigi (no they are not brothers) are very helpfull. Not sure this is a common problem though and it perplexes me that I fix one error (lambda sensor) only to have the same problem indicated by a second error (RPM sensor), unrelated, and yet both acting on stopping the injectors.
Would still like to know where the RPM sensor is - according to the manual it has only one bolt holding it in so it shouldn't be too hard to pull out and inspect.

Would suggest the lambda sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the car stopping, and that the fault code was probably there before the car stopped.  Oxy sensor readings are used as a trimming value (small additions or subtractions) from a base fueling map.  Their power to alter fueling is actually quite limited...

It will most likely be the crank angle (RPM) sensor.  Typical behaviour for these is to cause the engine to stop after the car has been running a while (built up heat in the sensor). Then if you leave it alone for some amount of time (15 mins is usually sufficient, but can take longer), it will happily start again and run for a while.  Common fault on many makes and models, Alfa twinsparks being one of them.

As far as there not being a code for the RPM sensor the first time - be careful, diagnostic codes are FAR from bulletproof, and are often downright misleading.  Replacing parts that the computer detects as faulty will often not fix the issue.  Take for example airflow metres - on many cars, faulty airflow metres will cause oxy sensor fault codes.  The rich mixture created by the air flow metre causes the oxy sensor to read 'out of range'.  It is actually correct, but the computer has been programmed that if the sensors output goes outside these preset values, it must be faulty...  The airflow metre however, doesn't read out of range, isn't short or open circuited, and appears normal to the computer.  Its only plenty of experience that can help you decipher the true meaning of a fault code - and whether the oxy sensor IS actually faulty, or whether something else is causing it to appear that way.  Likewise, depending on how the crank angle sensor fails, the computer may just see readings that indicate a stall...

[wankski]

DING DING DING.... crank sensor is what will stop the engine dead....

lambda as said does not instruct ecu and cause injector shut down, their job is to make sure cats are doing their job...

I think jekyll is right on this one..

look up location on your manual, it's a allen key bolt and may be easier to go from underneath, rather than extracting airbox and TB unless you are servicing those while u are at it...

[Park147]

Mr Jekyll and wankski,
thank you both heaps ..... what you say makes so much sense.
In your experience do you think a new RPM sensor would be the go from the outset or does cleaning it up usually fix the problem.
I think you were right about the lambda error being pre-existing now I come to think of it and so I don't think its been a waste in changing it.

[wankski]

i think more often than not they just fail, rather than need cleaning as they are a hall effect sensor...

no idea on pricing over here at the local stealers, but they can be had from UK around 30 quid, so not a massively expensive item...

it seems to go over here on most parts b/w 2x to 2.5x the value of uk, so i expect something around $100, that said, local guys never cease to amaze me on price.

[Park147]

thank you again Sir,
I will try the place that sourced the o2 sensor for me when four other outlets claimed there were none in the country.
In 40 years of driving this is the first car since the Mini I owned in the 70's that I've enjoyed enough to go for a drive just for the sake of driving, so I can't wait to get it back on the road!
Once again thanks for your help!

Richard.

PS: I'm happier now   

[Brad M]

Jekyll and wankski, you earned some gold stars there with some good advice to an Alfisti in need.

PS: Good luck Richard on getting it fired up, hope it's soon!

[Park147]

very very happy now
all fixed ........ thanks again for all the advice
and thanks for this forum