New car: 147 or GT?

[muzzy66]

Hi guys,

I've only just signed up now, but I already added a post in the introductions section so I won't go too much into the personal side of things.

I currently own a 1989 Mazda MX5 - I love the handling, the linear power delivry and the way the car drives in general, but I need something a little more practical, and also want something with some style that's fun to drive.

I've now narrowed my choice down to either an Alfa 147 GTA, or an Alfa GT V6.  The issue is that I'm having trouble deciding between the two.  

I haven't yet had a chance to drive either car, but I have been inside a GT at a dealer once, and was absolutely stunned by he gorgeous styling, the interior, and the overall attention to detail.  Though both cars are sexy, I prefer the smoother and sleeker styling of the GT over the more aggressve, boy-racer look of the 147.  The larger boot is also important for me.

These factors have had me leaning towards the GT...however I've been researching around and have found there might be more mechanical difference beween the two cars then I originally thought.  The Dyno graphs on the powerchip website suggest that the engine in the 147 GTA has more low end torque, and has an overall more linear power delivery.  I've also read that the 147 GTA has brembo brakes, while I haven't seen any mention of these for the GT.

Is there anyone here who has experience with both cars, and can tell me a little more about the mechanical diffrences between the two cars such as:
 
- Is the on paper difference in engine character noticable in real world driving? and if so can the GT motor be upgraded with the GTA parts?
- Does the GT also score the brembos?  If not are the GTA brakes interchangeable?
- Are there any there any other noteworthy differences between the two cars that I should be aware of, either in terms of mechanicals or the way they feel to drive?

Sorry for the mass of questions - I would test drive both for myslf, but there's still probably 3 to 4 weeks before I'll be ready to buy and I don't want to take up the time of sellers' until I'm in a position to put the money on the table (regardless of whether it's a dealer or private seller).  I've seen many reviews, but I put more trust in the opinion of you guys (and gals) because obviously you all know and love Alfas!

[stradale]

The GT is the cruiser, its softer and slower  the GTA is the racer, faster and with stiffer suspension
Yes you can interchange parts but they are not on the options lists you would have to buy new parts if still available and have them retro fitted $$$$$$$$$$
have you considered a 156 GTA a bit more space than the 147 but only a sedan

[muzzy66]

I have, but the 156 isn't really 'me' - I don't mind the styling, but it doesn't set my heart racing the way the others do.  If I got a 156 GTA, I know that I would look back in agony every time a GT or GTA drove past me.  Also from what I've read the 156 doesn't have a fold-down back seat, which is a big downer in terms of practicality.

Such a tough decision!  If only you could get the GT, but with the motor and suspension tune of the GTA...it'd be a no brainer.

The reason why the boot is such a big thing for me is that I like my high end audio (sound quality, not doof doof), and I'm afraid that the lack of depth in the 147 boot will give me big limitations and/or headaches when it comes time to get the stereo plans going.  The MX-5 gave me big limitations in this regard, and I'm trying to avoid making the same mistake twice.  The GT boot isn't massively bigger on paper (320L vs 280L), but rather the shape (deeper and more squared) looks a lot more suitable.

I love the aggresive look of the 147...but then my last few cars have all been very, teenager style cars.  Just for a change of scenery, I wouldn't mind something a little sleeker, and more mature.

Like I said, 147 mechanicals in a GT body would be perfect!


I guess the only way I'll know is if I test drive both, and see from there.  I do plan install upgraded Q2 LSD either way - i've been told it's pretty much a given for modern V6 Alfas.

[dehne]

the gt has the same engine as the 147gta another option is the gtv that has the 3.2ltr engine aswell im sure ive read that the gt has a sports suspention init

[muzzy66]

I know it has the same base engine, but I know the 147 engine also has a little more power on paper (184kw vs 176kw).

Because of this, I decided to look up the dyno sheets on www.powerchip.com.au and came up with:



I noticed that according to the dyno sheets, the 147 GTA has significantly stronger torque every where below 4,000rpm (a good 30nm-50nm less), as well as having an incrediby linear spread of torque from 2,000rpm - 6,000rpm (the GT not so linear, though still not bad).

This is why I got curious as to whether the two engines really are that different, or whether the difference is simply a matter of varied conditions (perhaps one car was more run in when tested, different temperatures, variaton in test equipment, etc).  I was thinking if here is someone hear who has driven both cars, they may be able to shine a little more light on the subject from their own frst hand experience.

The brakes were the other thing - Brembo's would certainly be a nice bonus to have, though this doesn't concern me too much, because I've read that the GT brakes are extremely good either way.  Still a little curious though!

[shiny_car]

Hey Pete

Good to see you here.

As much as anything, the power specs are marketing! Honestly, I doubt you would notice the difference between these cars on how they accelerate and drive, based upon the engine. More likely, the GTA is quicker because it's a little lighter; more nimble because of the shorter wheelbase.

OK, I'm not one to judge, cos I've not driven a 147GTA, but my friends who have driven both a fair bit, have told me this.

Suspension wise, neither is likely perfect, subject to what you actually want. Hence, going aftermarket with better springs and shocks, or coilovers is a great upgrade. You can thus make a GT handle better than a 147GTA, yet still retain great ride comfort. It's all possible; just costs money.

IMO, if the GT is not quick enough, then neither will a 147GTA be quick enough. But I doubt this will be an issue. So the power/torque becomes academic, especially coming from an MX-5. There's so many POSITIVE things about the drivetrain and handling, that the rest are small details. So, the sonorous engine/exhaust noise, the acceleration, even the torque steer (if no Q2 LSD)...are all so 'involving'! They aren't benign cars, and you learn to drive them fast; it's part of the fun. Though the Q2 will transform them if you like to drive fast. In comparison, I think driving something like a performance Audi, BMW, etc, is 'easy' to drive fast; I'd fall asleep doing it. 

The V6 GT does come with 330mm diameter front brakes with Brembo calipers. Standard. 2.0L does not.

147GTA late-'04 onwards has 330mm Brembos. Earlier models have 305mm.

Driving both will reveal their different traits. But I don't consider the GT exactly 'soft'. It's a blast to drive.

[muzzy66]

Thanks shiny,  haven't been on here for a while so only saw this post now!

As you know, I have since decided to go with the GT - but the news of the Brembo brakes on the GT is good to know! I've had a few cars that stopped pretty well, and a few cars that stopped not so well, and so I'm a bit of a sucker for cars will killer brake setups.  When I was down at a dealer the other day, the guy there told me that the new 100th Anniversary GT has Brembo brakes..but it didn't mention this in the brochure so I wasn't sure if maybe they had been optioned up on that model, or perhaps were only on the new model.  Good to hear it's on all the V6's, because it means I'll never need to upgrade later

The engine differences don't phase me much - as you said here is probably very litle difference in the feel of the motor.  I've seen recorded times of 14.8 for the quarter on the GT V6 (from an old motor/wheels mag) and that's plenty quick - no doubt the LSD upgrade would cut that down significantly also due to the better ability to put power to the ground.

Handling I will definately look into.  I'll see how the car feels once the LSD upgrade is done - that may be all it needs.  If I still feel it's a little soft, then I'll look into a suspension upgrade - it's probably the only real weakness of the alfa compred to the MX5 (performance wise) so if I can get the thing to handle I will be one satisified customer! hehe

Been looking at colours lately, and had so far narrowed it do to probably black with red interior, or red with black interior. 

I did see the black interior on the 147GTA I looked at and while it was sexy, I felt i could use a little something to break up all that black.  The black with red trim on the otherhand (such as yours) looks drop dead sexy - usually not a fan of this colour scheme for interiors, but Alfa did a great job of pulling it off without looking tacky (unlike the Commodore SS, RX8, etc).  It looks fantastic.

On the outside the black looks classy, but at the same time it seems to cover the lines a little...makes the car blend in a little more.  The Red really stand out, and IMO gives it a very 'italian supercar' like presence on the road.

Red exterior and iterior are my preferences but I think having the two toogether might be a bit much...and I've  yet to see such a combination around anyway. I think it'll be red with black, or red with beige.