SUSPENSION HEIRACHY

[ForzaSab]

I've just started looking into getting the suspension done for my 2004 156 JTS.
Reason being, and i am yet to get it looked at, is that the rear of my car is uneven so i suspect that either a spring has sprung! or a shock is on its way out.

I got the following quote from my local Pedders store just to see what i'd be looking at.

Part Number     Description                                           Qty.             Price           Value
VNE-5254        Bilstein Shocks                                       2                257.46         514.92
VNE-5255        Bilstein Shocks                                       2                304.65         609.30
F                   Fitting                                                   1                395.00         395.00
4WA               Wheel Alignment - 4 Wheel                       1                110.00         110.00
WORK             WORKSHOP CONSUMABLES                       1                 8.80            8.80
ENV                ENVIRONMENT/WASTE DISPOSAL FEE        1                 2.75            2.75

                                                                                                             GST:149.16
                                                                                                      Total Due:1,640.77

I also had someone from Lovells get back to me with the following.

"We have our Sportlow range of coils available for your Alfa 156 sedan. Expect these to lower by 25 to 30mm from factory new height.


Front p/n: AFL-50
Rear P/N: ARL-51

Price for these coils is $165.00 pair + Gst

Freight to Brisbane will cost $24.00 + Gst"

I have a couple of questions.
A) Is that quote from pedders right or is it over costed?
B) What are Lovells like in the heirachy of suspension?
Just remember that i do not do any track days and am not looking for top shelf parts, i just want something that will give me a nice ride, nothing too rigid as i have a family comprising of 2 little girls that will have to put up with it! 

Cheers

Sab

[ForzaSab]

lol mmmmm seems nobody knows anything about suspension here? 

[wankski]

it's just too ambiguous..

if you are asking what would i do? set spend around $1k and get the proven eibach suspension kit from alfisti.net

http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styling/Alfa-156/Suspensions/Eibach-ProSystem-syspension-kit::1145.html

pay for local fitting if you must thru them... but if it were me, i'd seriously consider doing the front wishbones as well as to not double up on work in the future...

what mileage are you at? if you are anywhere near 100km and 6yrs, about due...

that's if you want aftermarket suspension...

[L4OMEO]

Hi ForzaSab

That Pedders quote isn't the cheapest option I've seen. Bilstein shocks are very good, but for $900 delivered I received the Eibach springs and shocks package that Wankski refers to - add another $400 for fitting and alignment and you'll have a proven set-up and a few hundy left in your pocket. If you want to try this sometime just let me know - I'm in Brisbane on the northside & work close to the CBD, happy for you to have a drive & see what you think. I have a family too so while I was after improved handling it couldn't be at the expense of the ride. As it happens, the Eibach kit improves both.

Cheers
Rory

[ForzaSab]

Cheers for that guys.

@ wanksski
I was just trying to find out where certain brands where in the ladder of quality, ie
1) koni
2) bilstien
3) eihbach
4) Lovells
5) monroe

My car is a 2004 model but atm is at 70,000kms

@L4OMEO
Cheers for your feedback on what i'm looking at "family wise" i might take you up on that offer when the time gets closer.

[wankski]

Cheers for that guys.

@ wankski
I was just trying to find out where certain brands where in the ladder of quality, ie
1) koni
2) bilstien
3) eihbach
4) Lovells
5) monroe

My car is a 2004 model but atm is at 70,000kms

the first three are about the same in terms of being reputable euro brands IMHO. Tho be aware that koni STR.T is not the same in quality/function as Koni FSD, so it depends on model...That said, be aware that eibach make springs (among the best) and the dampeners are therefore third party (IIRC boge makes the struts)... what i do like about the eibach pro system kit is that the dampeners are specially spec'd by eibach to match the pro kit springs. that is rather important.... the eiback pro kit springs are THE bench mark for alfas and many euro cars, so any other combination may be hit and miss... you match the dampening rate to the spring, if you know what i mean...

that is why the modestly priced quality bit of kit works well...  do not bother with the seemingly cheap alternatives...

as for lovells never heard of them, but for that money you would be mad to walk away from eibachs for the same or less money. it is proven in 156s. Eibach pro kit springs are paired with any quality dampener out there by default... Monroe for dampeners, meh... it's just not the same, and nor do they specialise in alfas... i feel their specialty is a different market.

like i said the euro stuff is proven with alfas, and is very high quality, eg dutch or german...

proven kits most to least expensive

bilstein b14 dampeners + eibach pro kit springs (about 1.5k landed)
koni FSD + eiback springs (about same price)
or full eibach kit (around $1k, bit less with good euro exchange)

i personally think u lose nothing in terms of quality and being set up right from default with the full eibach option, but at the same time it is very reasonably priced for what you are getting. JMO... also the more expensive stuff, u can add GST on top as they easily clear $1k, so will be subject to import duty.

If you plan on keeping your car, yes, i would do the full top and lower wishbones in your car... it should not cost any extra in labour, but if you ship in over from UK or europe (advisable), plan on adding another $3-400ish.

Ultimately, if you stick 1.5k-2k+ fully adjustable bilstein suspension, and your front wishbones never been done, i think that is money in the wind. if 1.5k is your max expenditure you'll always be better off on new alfa genuine 'bones + new full eibach kit...

my $0.02 anyway...

wow, bit of a saga...sorry if i bored you! 

[John Hanslow]

Good info. I hear what you are saying.

if you are asking what would i do? set spend around $1k and get the proven eibach suspension kit from alfisti.net

OK ... I have a 2002 TS Monza with the dealer fitted Sport Package (lowered red springs) for that year. I do find it a bit firm if on country roads as well as some suburban streets.

I was looking at a touring option rather than sports option so does the eibach have a suitable product ?  

[wankski]

Hi John,

sorry not that I know of. AFAIK, the only freely available eibach springs are the prokit and the supersports (which is even more agressive 50mm drop cf 30mm of the prokit)

I dare say your best best is obtaining some standard springs fitted to the cooking model 156s... if you monza is fitted with the 'sportspack'....IIRC the sportspack used springs 25mm lower than stock from eibach with bilstein dampeners, and therefore had a higher spring rate.

If you don't have sportspack, I hazard to guess there would be nothing off the shelf that is softer than the stock set up. Custom springs is your only hope...

if you could be bothered going through all that, that is...

[John Hanslow]

Thaniks for reply.  Yes the springs are sport springs. 

Perhaps back to standad monza springs with koni yellows for next JTS or V6 purchase.

Cheers.

[wankski]

no worries. funny, seems u are a bit 'unfortunate' in that sense... AFAIK, 2002 was the yr that alfa decided 156s ought to have the sports suspension as standard after the 'hard springs, soft dampening' was widely panned in the early models, especially overseas.

so you could have easily ended up with either....

odd as it is for someone to complain about the upgrade....    

me, i'm stoked with my Ti... being an 05 it has the sports springs, but the upgrade of quality bilstein dampeners... saves me a grand or two. Yes the bilstein is much better (to my preferences).

[L4OMEO]

Good feedback wankski.

Have to say John, my Eibach Pro set-up does ride better than the standard (non-SP) set-up. It's still firm and you feel every bump, but it's in a well-controlled manner whereas the standard suspension crashed into everything. The springs & shocks are simply much better matched than the original fitment was.

Rory

[John Hanslow]

Know what you are saying.  

I had better test drive a standard JTS or TS on the road so I can compare.  I must be getting a bit old and want or 'need' a smooth drive.   Having said that I may have to buy someone a jug of beer or 6 pack for a drive of a 156 with your the recommended upgrade as suggested here !  Thirtsy volunteers anywhere ?

In Auto Italia magazine, they do often refer to suspension upgrades so you car handles better on the UK country B grade roads.  Better would not necessarily mean smoother ride, more like better handling I think.  That is the key in this thread.

An important factor is the seats too.  I have the recaro style cloth seats that are firm.  Leather option like on a Monza or on a Ti are just that bit softer.

Cheers

[156oro]

I put Koni Lowered Sport Springs & Shocks (Yellow Adjustables)....on my 2004 156 JTS....

One word....Superb.....!

Price fitted was around $1600.....

On the softer setting the ride even with the lowered sports spring is as good as the factory set up...
I've given them a coupe of twists on the adjuster on the fronts for a little firmer dampner on the shocks....

Next step is a set of Continetal Contact Sport 3's on the rims..

I have some Conti's on an Manual XR6 with original factory suspension...Fark what a quiet but grippy ride...!!!
I'll never go back to a cheaper brand of tyres again...they are excellent in the wet especially...!

[bix]

Good information on the suspension choices. The Eibach pro system is only EUR549.00 at the moment. At the current exchange rate, it's only AUD $730! What a bargain (gees I love the ozzie dollar at the moment).
My 156 Monza TS has been factory lowered and my wife constantly complains about it when going over speed humps at full-tilt  Does anyone know how low this factory setting is? I can't imagine anyone driving on the road with anything lower than this (see pic). Anyways, we've just put down a deposit on a 159 for her, so now I can do what I like with the 156.

Whilst the 156 has a very firm ride, the car still has the propensity to wallow when it rides over dips in the road. I think the Eibach system would be my choice. As the car has done a little over 100k and I wanted to turn the car into a bit of a club/track car, I was thinking of also purchasing the following items:

Front and rear Polyurethane bush set (probably quite noisy and gives a harsh ride)
Front and rear strut bars
OMP wishbone bar
Eibach anti-roll kit.

Has anyone fitted these to a 156 TS? What are thoughts out there in building a club-car under $3000 for a bit of a laugh?

Do you think the brakes will also need to be updated? Alfisi.net also have some GT discs which presumably will fit the 156 and provide less fade than the existing discs??

http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styling/Alfa-156/Brakes/Brembo-Sport-Brake-Disc-Set-GT-Sport-front::3767.html

[wankski]

PU bushings - can be worthwhile for the track... but for suspension - before you consider strut bars and dampner/spring kits - i would investigate your wishbones first.

The first step is to make sure you current suspension is working properly... the bushings and the ball joint on the lower arm wears and introduces play in the system (and ultimate failure is expressed by clunking)

I think super and/or powerflex make hard bushings for the wishbones, lower and upper. This is a better idea than buying aftermarket - u'll need a shop press tho to push the old ones out and install the new ones. This should be done when you are upgradings springs/dampners. Inspect the lower arm ball joint, if worn, or suspect, or just old - get a new genuine lower arm and replace the stock bushings if desired.

Def factor this in with costs IIRC the cost of the bushings isn't too bad, and if you do your own labour - that's obviously free. you need spring compressors and ball joint seperator of the scissors style to do the job. The rear suspension is a lot easier obviously - you have a pair of rods with bushings - the cost is not much for genuine. go ahead and replace these as well.

swaybars - a good idea. the stock anti roll bar has massive rubber bushings that are a common point of failure as well.


brakes - yes. For me its worse as i have the same front brakes, and mine's a v6. The GT came in 305 and 330mm IIRC (same as GTA). No point going 305 as the rotors wont just fit, so you may as well go 330mm. Better brakes come from largely bigger rotors that have a larger area for bigger pads and can dissipate heat better. U'd need to space out the caliper to accommodate this. The GTA uprights are also different, so u'd have to source those out to fit the GTA brembos. Many places offer the GTA upgrade kit new, but as you'd expect its not cheap. If you're not willing to go thar far, better slotted rotors and far better pads with race fluid will have to do. So in short the 'gt rotors' in the stock 284mmx22 size ought be a straight swap, and if it is indeed a better quality rotor made for harder pads like the ferodo 2500, should be a decent 'stock' alternative for the track. However - it is double the price of the other brembos ('max') on that site, which appear to have shallow slots - and being a stock size i doubt the 'gt' offers any noteable advantage other than aesthetics... i'd pocket the E170 for other things, like pads - trust me, u'd need it for something like racing ferodos...