SUSPENSION HEIRACHY

[bix]

Gotcha.
So regardless of the PU upgrade, you recommend replacing the lower arms with new ones. I am now getting some clunking in that general area under certain conditions and that makes sense (and I think they suggest replacing at 100,000 k's anyway). I think I would pay someone to install the suspension and thus get the new bushings pressed in (too old for getting under the car these days  ).

Alfisti.net have PU replacement parts for both the upper and lower suspension arms (http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styling/Alfa-156/Suspensions/PU-Suspension-Bushes-Set-Front-Axle::1414.html). Were you suggesting any additional bushes?

Regarding the brakes, I don't think I want to go to the 330mm units as this will require also a wheel & tyre upgrade (I believe the 16" wheels won't fit), and it sounds like replacing uprights and finding/making caliper spaces would bring a world of pain (including the bank balance).

One other thing after reading an Alfa GT article in Auto Italia recently was mentioned of the GT frame being strengthened over and above the standard 156 unit. Does anyone know what exactly that means? Is the standard 156 too flexy?

Cheers

[wankski]

PU - wow - idk why those are so randomly expensive.... tops only are 50 quid at ebspares...

on the topic of bushings - def get the pu sway bar bushes (should be included in an uprated eibach kit, confirm - ex links, so you may need to add those) and the trailing arm bushes here: http://www.ebspares.co.uk/alfa156/suspension_alfa156.cfm.

lower wishbone - yes, if the ball joint is worn, or even if not and it is past 100k why not... my car is close to 100k and is a v6 but its all sound... (17" rims too!) but you are going to pay to take em out to fit bushings - may as well replace - they are only 60-70 quid ea on ebspares (oem)... u may consider skipping the PU here and just fit the oem lowers to save urself over 100 euros - totally up to u. but if you are hearing noises from it, then something is shot and i'd def replace on age/mileage alone.

have no idea about the gt vs 156 'frame' - it is likely stiffer due to the shape and 2 door vs 4, but i don't think u'll have any issue with the 156. it's a pretty solid and lively body design.

[bix]

Thanks for the tip Wankski. Well EB Spares have some nice sets of 17 inch wheels and it is very tempting to think about putting the 330mm Brembo's on the old TS. I did see however there are additional complications (refer http://forum.alfa156.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55217&PN=1).

In addition to GTA uprights, you need to replace not only bearings but there are some challenges around the steering. The link says ..."steering arms on the GTA upright are shorter than a standard upright you will need either a GTA steering rack (fitting requires subframe removal) or GTA track rods." Crap!

Anyways, it goes on and talks about a Brembo kit utilising the standard upright on 305mm discs (Gran Turismo Brembo upgrade kit upgrade (305x28mm) 33.0002). I found a link to a German website selling the kit at EUR1150 http://www.limited-cars.de/lc_racing/frameopener.htm?/lc_racing/brembo/alfa.htm. A little pricey for my liking, although should be less hassle than getting the 330's and there is a comment that it should fit 16 inch wheels! Jeepers... I see myself getting sucked/suckered down a bottomless pit.

[wankski]

d'oh, my bad... my mind keeps on defaulting to my 156 - V6 model. No other mods are necessary. (v6 rack - a.k.a sail barge turning circle - v6 hubs and 17" stock rims) ...yes it adds complexity (a.k.a cost) with a 4.

Guess the real question is - this a track car? or a road car that can partake in club events? two massively different sets of decisions right there.

I guess the tenor of my post re: brakes upgrade is there is no two ways about it - gunna be expensive - or stick with stock sizes and uprated rotors and pads. I s'pose starting from a 4, the best bet would be skip oem. You can stick on any rotor that will fit and have the hat drilled in 5x98 w/ correct spigot hole - likewise custom spacer for the caliper of your choice. Last time i looked wilwood dynalites were an awesome choice for the specs and money.

The further issue is MC...  the stock unit is a single pot - if you go a massive 4 or 6 pot caliper u'll likely need to uprate that. Really - i'm not saying brakes aren't important track upgrades, but i'd personally pass and just get better, reasonably priced rotors, and DS2500 pads. it's just a 4 which isn't heavy and makes what, 145hp max real world? speaking of which, throwing out as much unwanted weight as possible is a good idea and will improve braking... things like the AC system and even stock heater box are quite heavy and bulky, as are stock seats... just saying...

if you were to do it - go large. The 305mm isn't much of an upgrade. proof is in the recall in the UK for the first gtas that had the 305 - yeah they have more power and weight, but under emphatic driving - the 305s warped and became unuseable - hence the 330mm upgrade. yes the 305 rotor is physically larger and thus has more material to dissipate heat than the 22mm stock unit, but still, 305 isn't much more than 284mm... whereas 330mm is a pretty damn good size and much larger all round than the stock unit. With a proper 4/6 pot caliper = vastly superior... just saying, if you were to bother - go straight to the top. $$$$.

and yes, the spending hole you can dig for yourself is potentially bottomless - this is why i think hard to rationalise spending and pick my 'battles'. HTHs.

[bix]

Thanks for the reality check Wankski. Your right, this is essentially a road-car which I want to put onto the track occasionally. I'll first see what I can squeeze out of the existing setup and next step with some pad & rotor upgrades. My excessive/compulsive disorder gets the better of me sometimes. Thankfully my bank balance, family commitments and this forum smash me down to reality 

[bix]

Just to revisit this one again Wankski, does the v6 have the same steering ratio as the GTA?

[wankski]

pretty sure it does...

turning circle is frikken awful...   

[bix]

Looking at the specs:

2.0L - 2.25 turns lock to lock, turning circle 11.6 metres.
3.2L GTA - 1.75 turns lock to lock, turning circle reported to be 13 metres (http://www.aaa.asn.au/roadtests/reports/339.pdf.

Some websites are suggesting that the 156 2.5L v6 have the same turning circle as the 2.0l. Any thoughts?

[wankski]

hmmm seems to be some confusion about it all...

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/90510-turning-circle.html

in any case maybe you get your answer on the 156 tech day!! 

logically no reason for the v6s to differ... but then again logic often fails alfa...

[L4OMEO]

In the handbook Alfa quotes different turning circles for the TS and V6, just can't remember what the two figures are. It's not a huge difference. Turns lock to lock are the same.

Had no idea the GTA's turning circle was so much larger though - 5-point turns, anyone?

[wankski]

yep, page 306 of mine it states ts, jts & jtd 11.1m

v6 11.6m.

the turning radius for the gta may have been limited for the wider tyres? what is on a gta ? 235?

my stock v6 is 215/45 on 17".

[L4OMEO]

GTA tyres are 225/45 17, but the suspension uprights are different and may limit the wheel movement. Or maybe it's just the way the quick-rack is geared?

Rory

[bix]

Hi all,
Going back on an old theme here, but I am almost ready to replace upper & lower wishbones, install the Eibach anti-roll kit & Eibach pro suspension kit.
Two questions:
1. do you think I should also replace track rods, axial joints and anti-roll bar links as well?
2. on the subject of axial joints, where they hell are they located? I can't seem to find them anywhere in the 156 diagrams on the EPER site. http://ricambi.alfisti.net/product_info.php?info=p6125_Axial-joint-Alfa-147---156---GT.html

Thanks.

[Neil Choi]

Re: axial joints

Correct me if I am wrong, aren't they the inner tie rods (L+R), connected to the steering rack and hidden inside the steering rubber boots.

[colcol]

Absolutely correct Neil, they are replaceable, although not as easy to replace as the outer ones on the strut, if i remember  the tie rods on 156's are listed on the ebay 156 site and they are sold by auto chassis kings, the inners, in the rubber bellows are $65 each and the outers are $50, Colin.