Stop smoke, negative side effects?

[DBonelli]

Hi, I have a mostly original 1978 GTV. The car has the original engine build and as to be expected has a bit of wear and is blowing a bit of smoke. I am currently using HRP-30 oil and was going to change this to HPR-50 and also use stop smoke \ engine honey in the new oil change. Wondering if there are any negative side effects from doing this, if although it may fix a short term problem will it end up causing a bigger long term issue?

Darren

[dehne]

ive been using this for about 6 years with every oil change i do i but in stop smoke and a stop engine stop leak as well, have not had any probs to date

[alfagtv152]

Hi Darren,
I used Penrite HPR 50 and no smoke for years in my original 1979 GTV motor including sprinting and running 10lbs boost with a Supercharger(approx 3 yrs)when it had done 280,000km plus.When I disassembled it after eventually breaking a ring land(to many revs)the internals were as clean as a whistle and in perfect order except for a broken ring land and a bearing shell nearly ready to fail,I guess the wearing parts were allowed to be worn out at that mileage but crank,cams&buckets,etc were all ok.
I have no hesitation recommending Penrite oils,HPR 40 minimum for track work,in the old engines unless they have been made to much finer tolerances than original,for a high miler go for the 50 and no smoke,it will still go good.
Cheers
Andrew

[MD]

alfagtv152  is the only guy I know that gets around Mallalla Racing Circuit fast enough to catch his own smoke...

onya buddy

[DBonelli]

Sweet, thanks guys. My smoke cloud is pretty big but doesn't happen all the time. I'll drain the sump and run HPR-50 with stop smoke this weekend. This is not a track car, this is my weekend relaxed fun drive.

[bt46]

I find penrite oils have to many detergents and need changing more often than other oils. This would be a good thing if you want to change your oils often i guess. I have been using the blue shell helix and have found this to be excellent. Sometimes its just a matter of choice. I new a guy who swore by valvoline. Said he had even lab tested it. Personally I would never buy valvoline because I dont like Jhon Laws.

I think you will find that stop smoke will slowly coat your ally engine blocks and heads in a ever increasing layer of yellow/brown lacquer that when come to rebuild time requires an awful amount of elbow greese to remove. Of course you could be smart and have the components acid dipped which unfortunatley I never was.

lol I had an alfetta years ago that burned so much oil the stop smoke worked for about a day before it was diluted with fresh oil. Went through an entire 6lt hpr 60 flogging it to canberra and back.

[MD]

Went through an entire 6lt hpr 60 flogging it to canberra and back.

Yeah, but I bet they could see your grin from the moon..

[bt46]

I will always remember that trip. First weekend of alfa ownership. Hauled ass up the monaro hwy and came back down the hume. Pulled an indicated 7000rpm in fifth on that dirty old engine as i went slowly past a cheaky nissan pulsar trying to outrun me. I could see all the road at 100mph in the dark when i was 18 lol. I think I only got 170k's out of one tank on the run home

[Andrew Bose]

Try HPR 50 first you can always add stop smoke later.

I have used HPR 50 for years in a boxer with almost 550,000km on the clock and it is fine.

Have you thought of using a flushing oil?

I find a good Italian tune up once a week works wonders too.

[pep105]

I can vouch for Penrite HPR 50 as well, I used it in the GTV for years (and the Fiat) and no smoke and when the engine was at operating temp it was just sweet, I did try Valvoline once in the GTV and lets say if i could meet John laws in a dark alley armed with an Alfetta crankshaft..........I did try HPR30 as well especially in the colder months but usually ran the 50. Two mates with Alfettas with slighty tired engines swear by it too.

My cousin got me onto Penrite HPR 50 he had an MGB that used more oil than petrol and blew more smoke than Tom Waits or an XY GT in a summernats burnout comp. It extended his engines use by date as it reduced the smoke and oil consumption, but it got to a point where even the Penrite couldn't help it (he started buying it in bulk) so he resigned to the fact that the engine was well and truly f*ked.

[MD]

.....

1978 GTV. The car has the original engine

....

Well here's is the thing. Doesn't much matter which good oil one uses when you have and engine this old. If it has had a normal use and mileage there are facets that make it blow smoke and leak oil.

The valve guides are worn.
The valve stem seals are hard and fail to make a close seal.
The oil control rings are worn
The bore is less than round

So when you put all these factors together, it is a big ask for any oil to fix the issue for you.

From experience most of the carburetted engines are ususally fkd by around 150,000km and looking for a freshen up. On the other hand, the injected engines of the same capacity will do 3 times the mileage before they get to the same state. This is not always the case and I expect there are exception but generally its correct.

As for the leaks, the oils seals not only wear but wear the parts they rub against. What's more being made of plastics, they will shrink over time and if that's a seal around a crankshaft (or the like) the opening size of the seal progressively gets bigger and the sealing progressively less.

[DBonelli]

Maybe my problems are bigger then I originally thought. I'll go through about 4-5L of HPR-30 every 1000 ks. The engines done 141,000ks in total. The car is pretty tidy body wise and the gear box is a-ok. I'm not much of a mechanic at all, I work in IT all day, so most problems I do have I usually have to pay someone to do it for me.

What do you mean by using a flushing oil? Do you mean another additive to put into the oil and rev the engine up to clean it out?

I might try moving up to HPR-50 without stop smoke at first just to see if there are any changes to oil consumption.

My smoke problems only really started one day when I filled up the car with Shell high octane fuel, and then I found out there are additives in that mix made for modern fuel injection sports performance. I wouldn't have thought it would cause any real problems, I think it's just coincidence but since then I have only been using BP high octane. Funny thing was the first couple of fill ups with BP the car spat and spluttered when I took off out of the service station and was like that for a while as I made my way home, but that has since stopped.

Another thing is, I'm hoping this is just condensation but I started the car up for the first time in about 7 days and I let the girl warm up first on the driveway, anyway I noticed there was a puddle of water on the ground under the exhaust pipe about the size of a 50 cent coin. I then had a look in the pipe and there was bit of water about the size of a 10 cent coin in dancing the vibrations. Would this indicate any leaks or any other problems from experience you guys have had?

It's such a nice car, but I think it's time for a major engine overhaul. I kind of have a pie in the sky dream of having a modern twin spark conversion. But yeah very pie in the sky as if I was to go down this path I'd be paying someone else to do it and I know it would cost more than the market value of the car.

[MD]

I think you are at the crosssroads of passion. Money or car.? Er, which one?

[Andrew Bose]

Flushing oil is designed to clean out any accumulated sludge in the oil passages and ring grooves, NOT to be driven around with. If you cannot find any try a diesel oil for about 5km but be prepared for a couple of oil and filter changes in the next 100-200km as the sludge tends to block up filters and will continue to until it is flushed out. Use this as a LAST resort as it can lower the oil pressure of a clogged engine due to clean oil galleries. i.e. bigger hole less pressure.

Hope this helps

[DBonelli]

If I can stop the smoke then I'd be very happy to keep the car. I imagine a Twin spark conversion would cost more than I can afford right now. Something to think about later down the line.

I found some sump flush at big W of all places, I'll give that a go.

One small problem, I've drained my sump with a 27mm socket before. I now tried using a 'multi' type 27mm socket and it slipped a couple of times. Where can I get a normal non multi nut shaped socket from? I went to Super Cheap but those bums don't really have anything of help unless you own a holden or ford  (so I didn't bother to ask for an alfetta 78 oil filter). I'm in Brisbane.