Selespeed. love them or hate them!

[zingero]

I thought id start a discussion on selespeeds and peoples experience with them.
Symtoms, fixes if you know of them.
the basic parts of a selespeed include the accuator, and the pump.
The accuator bolts to the gearbox and has a bunch of solenoids bolted to it and the the pump obviously supplys presure to the whole thing. there are so many bits to it that when you get a fail, there are many symptoms that can occur.
for example my 147 used to release the clutch about 4 times when cold when trying to take off causing a jerking action. Annoying if your trying to get out of a tight parking spot but once it warmed up it was fine.
when I popped the bonnet the clutch lever looked like it was having an epileptic fit! In this case the clutch solenoid was the culprit and seemed to fix the problem.
I'd like to hear of similar or different stories that anyone has encountered and how It was fixed if you know.
cheers
P.s I dont suggest u try fixing selespeeds yourself as they run under very high presures and need to be depressurised before disasembly and then they need to be recalibrated once assembled again. more so id like to hear of some of the silly-speed things they do when playing up.

[wankski]

selespeeds are good and can be fixed. The later models are much better.

I disagree, u should have a basic knowledge of the system if you are considering buying a second hand one now...

by far the biggest issue is likely gunna be pressure failure, meaning accumulator and pump... u can even reco the pump...

the biggest symptoms are:
1) dumping back to neutral - pressure problem
2) shuddering - can be calibration and clutch rod length or worn clutch assembly
3) bunny hopping in first - as you mentioned clutch solenoid

other things that can go are fuse, relay and clutch/gear sensors... the first two are cheap and easy to replace, but even the main sele sensors aren't that expensive to replace... at least u can code them with diag or examiner... they may not pick up other faults...

yes you can work on the system pressure is not an issue. You can depressure with diag or alternatively go the low tech route and yank the fuse.


manual is not immune from issues, but yes, sele obviously has more parts...

still, good thread.

[jackafrica]

I'm interested in knowing more about the repairs of the system parts like the pump and accumulator which I understand is available as a separate part for a Fiat.
The part number is Fiat 71751195.

Owning a Citroen DS with BVH ( hydraulic clutch and gear selection, with a pump and accumulator ) I have test and rebuilding equipment for these.

just purchased both AlfaDiag and FiatECU diagnostic programs,a rarebear cable so I'm good to go.
The knowledge and sharing of it is the most important factor in attempting an effective repair.

cheers
Richard

[wankski]

If you have a specific question, shoot.

I have no idea what the citreon DS is... not aware of other systems that are similar to selespeed aside from fiat obviously in maintstream production cars...

pump repair is a bit of a misnomer... yes, in some insatnces you can crack it open after it has failed and replace the bushings and it may work, but in many cases it is likely to be damaged by the failure, either the windings are fused in the coil, or the commutator is gone etc...

I see the pump reco as just that, renewing a *good* pump.... kinda like caliper or variator *repair kits*, if u wait til they're totally gone, u have much less chance of success.

The accumulator is pretty straight forward replacement... old vessel losing pressure? replace with new, problem gone... biggest issue is u need a thin 27mm box spanner IIRC...

The thing is the accumulator is reposible for failures that pop up as something else, such as relay error, that's because the pressure at baseline 40-45bar is dropping, causing the relay to switch the pump on all the time.... of course keep on going like that and the pump will fail...

so really maintenance is key, and while it's going good, at an appropriate interval, u really ought to refesh all u can...

1) rebuild pump and inspect
2) new accumulator
3) new fuse and relay
4) set clutch rod length and recalibrate

step 4 ought to be done annually.

[rainbo]

I have a  manual an auto and selespeed alfa and the selespeed is most fun especially when driven hard like on track days. Most "experts" dont take the time to get used to the selespeed and are used to hyundai i30s (didnt they just vote it car of the year). As for reliability i is no different to a manual but it does cost more to fix.
As a final point it is faster on a track than a manual.

[pasey25]

I agree with the last post. Most car reviewers don't drive sele's long enough to appreciate them. The driving style is different and takes some getting used to but is generally much more satisfying.

As an owner of two different versions of the sele, i must say that the one in the GTA is superb to drive. It is quick and smooth. The older one in my 156 is slower to change by comparison, and always has been.

[wankski]

i dunno - sele has issues - sure is fun when ur driving someone else's car.

Even when its working fine, it does silly things like decide to dump you into a lower gear just as you press the downshift button coming to a corner - that's my beef - 'manual mode' isn't really - it will still intervene. I'd perfer the system not upchange (even the Q-system holds gear) - or downchange if i'm in manual mode (it should clutch-in). The blipping is damn cool tho!

The other issue is b/c it is a robotised clutch the first gear is very short to prevent excess slipping. The gap b/w 1-2 means that even in the later 2004-on cars, it sometimes jumps and lurches the change (annoying as sometimes it does it right). Other problem is the system doesn't know if you're stopping momentarily or if you're stuck at lights for good - as a result the system clutches in 90% of the time - meaning the polymer! TO bearing is often the first to go in sele systems, sometimes long before the clutch.

I have no issue with the 156 manual. Every one I dove was pretty solid.

The main problem - maintenance aside - is that the sele is completely made obsolete by DSG and similar systems. Not that the DSG is perfect, but it eats the sele for breakfast. You can't go back. The dual clutch clearly elegantly removes the problem of 1-2 gear gap (which the DSG still has) - but b/c the second gear is already engaged and the system simply clutches out on the 1-2 change, the shift quality is both excellent and quick. The sometimes up to a second wait for the sele to do something after you pull the paddle becomes excrutiating after the DSG.

While above I said that most problems are pressure related, I have seen legit cases where the actuator must be replaced (usually the actuator casing itself cracks and dumps the sele fluid into the g/b). That is not a happy day for the owner. Also electrical faults elsewhere can trigger the sele to shutdown and refuse to leave neutral. My 156 is a weekend car and I need it to be reliable thru a trip as far as adelaide on occasion. In my mind the risk of foreseeable sele breakdown in another state stranding me was too great. In a manual - maybe stash a crank sensor if it hasn't been changed and maybe a used but good coil and u should be right.

Not knocking - just ruminating.

[John Hanslow]

RWE a previous 147 for sale - I noted that with the 147 GTA, a comment was made by the seller that the GTA selespeed was not the ordinary Alfa selespeed but a 6 speed Ferari selespeed and much better.

I checked with a mechanic who did say it was much better indeed - and much more expensive to replace !

Think of it like this - the cars could not be sold in the USA (land of litigation) as you would just get a class action law sit.  Audi got a hiding and that was timing belt failure (familiar).

CHeers

[wankski]

yep its a different unit and meant to be better. never drove a gta sele so can't comment.

but if its the same as the 6sp in the 159 - still has issues (in auto mode the brand new one i drove stuck itself in 2nd gear @ 60km/h - even tho i had totally removed my foot from the accelerator and even blipped the brakes to give it a hint... that car had issues).

john, got a same yr 147 to replace your 156? wot happened?

[pasey25]

i don't think it is the same sele in the 159 vs the GTA. I'm pretty sure its not the same gearbox

the GTA Sele is the SAME gb as the rest of the GTA's (same ratios & p/n) just with the sele on top. So it doesn't have any 1st into 2nd gap as noted above.

The GTA sele also holds gear on the upchange. my 156 only ever upchanged instead of bouncing off the rev limiter though. Given its age I don't do that anymore

as for the downchange. Thats only ever an issue if the driver hasn't selected the correct gear to begin with