Cam belt broken after only 34,000kms

[archie03]

Looking for some advice here guys.

My 147 has just broken it's cam belt. I have only covered 34,000 kms and the car is 4.5 years old. It was an '05 model that I purchased in Feb '06.

The service book states that the cam belt should be replaced at 60,000 kms or at 3 years under harsh conditions or 5 years in total. I have spoken to Alfa Romeo and they said Sydney was considered a harsh environment(!) and that the cam belt should have been replaced at 3 years. At 3 years I had only done about 25,000 kms.

My car was serviced at 2.5 years by Alfa Romeo. They didn't say the cam belt should be replaced soon. Since then I have had it services by another mechanic. Reading the service book, I doubt this mechanic would have thought the cam belt needed replacement.

Question is, what do you think is my best course of action? I need to get the car fixed to recover some value from it. Alfa are quoting $8000-9000 to perform the work. Should I get it done somewhere else?

Do you think I have a case to take to Alfa Romeo based on the the cam belt breaking before their recommended replacement values?

Any help or comment would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Greg

[wankski]

yes, the cam belt is 60k or 3 yrs whatever is first, so i'm afraid you're outta luck...

You may write to the dealer that did the work at 2.5yrs and failed to warn and ATECO (importer) putting your case to them..

They may subsidise the cost, but either way... $8-9000 sounds like a lot... even if they come to the table, it'll be at best level with a good specialist... i'd expect a fee around 4-5k, depending on how many valves u took out and any other damage...

[L4OMEO]

Ouch. Bad luck indeed.

Unfortunately Ateco and the Alfa Romeo dealers don't have a good reputation for acting out of goodwill, but it's still an avenue worth pursuing. If the service book makes reference to a 5-year timeframe then legally you may have some opportunity for recourse, I'd recommend contact your local Office of Fair Trading and see if they can assist you in putting together a convincing case.

$8-9k does sound expensive, given the $$ involved it would also be worth getting quotes elsewhere. Search the forum for recommendations for other Alfa specialists in your area.

Best of luck Greg,

Rory

[JOHN G]

Hi Greg

Firstly sorry to hear about your cam belt breaking at 25,000km's.

The part in question is a perishable item.Alfa Romeo recommend changing the cam belt at 3 years or 60,000 km's.

If your cambelt had been changed at 3 years in your case 25,000 km's,you would not be having this problem that you are now.

Your non Alfa mechanic should have changed the cam belt due to the cam belt age not the indicated km's.
( I have changed cam belts after 36 months and zero km's because they start to dry out and crack with age)

(Do you think I have a case to take to Alfa Romeo based on the the cam belt breaking before their recommended replacement values?) No and your statement is flawed unfortunately.

My advice is use a Alfa mechanic from the sponsor page.

Good

[tony8028]

Man, I feel so bad for you....are you in Sydney ? I'd really like you to take it to my mechanic for a quote.

My belt is due in December and it almost makes me want to do it now rather than risk it. I also have not done anywhere near 60,000 since last change....

Changing the belt costs around $1200 from what I have seen - better than the bill you are facing, its still a lot of money, so I can see why people take their chances and drive on for an extra month or two.

Can anyone post a photo of what a cam belt brake actually does to an engine ? It seems to be diabolical.

[JOHN G]

http://www.alfaromeo.com.au/default.asp?action=article&ID=21722


Special - Cambelt Replacement

From $452.65 (a saving of 30 percent)

Your authorised Alfa Romeo dealer will inspect and replace 2 your Cambelt when booked in conjunction with your next major service of 60,000kms or 36 months.

To keep your Alfa Romeo in peak condition it's important that your Cambelt be inspected regularly. Failure of the Cambelt will cause extensive damage to your engine. Only your authorised Alfa Romeo dealer can make such a great offer on genuine Alfa Romeo parts and service.

Speak to your Alfa Romeo Service Centre now.

This offer only applies to 2.0L 4-cylinder petrol engines (Alfa GT, 147 and 156). *Recommended retail price excluding labour costs which are additional. 1When parts are purchased as part of a kit, through an authorised Alfa Romeo dealer. 2Replacement of the belts is mandatory whilst other related components depend on condition at the time of inspection. 3This price includes the supply of timing belt, balance shaft belt and all associated tensioners. Price does not include labour.

(This is a fair price to pay )
John

[L4OMEO]

Hi again Greg

John G's quite correct – Alfa does recommend changing the belt at 3 years/60k. But, they didn't when they sold you the car.

The cambelt service intervals changed in November 2006. Prior to this the requirements (for the 156/147 anyway) were only to inspect the belt at 60k and replace at 120k/5 years, or 3 years if used in harsh conditions. Vehicles delivered before this date should have had a service bulletin issued by Alfa Romeo when next serviced at an AR dealership (I've had this happen for the one 156 which I had serviced by AR). I take it this hasn't happened? Even so, it would be difficult to prove otherwise.

Your dealer didn't dispute the existence of this 5-year interval, only that you drove the car in 'harsh conditions' and should therefore have changed the cambelt at 3 years. Unfortunately, their definition of 'harsh conditions' include 'city driving' and if you live and drive in Sydney then this would also be hard to argue. It might still be worth discussing with the Office of Fair Trading but I think John's (again) correct in that you don't have a strong case here.

Best of luck in getting through this.

Cheers
Rory

[archie03]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think you have hit the nail on the head Rory. When I was sold the car, the cam belt was to be inspected at 60,000 and replaced by 120,000. The question is whether Alfa Romeo did enough to alert me to the changes in recommendations.

The 3 and 5 year thing is also overly complicated. The owners manual states "or every 3 years for harsh conditions (cold climates, city driving or prolonged lengths of time at idle speed, dusty areas". This is such a catch-all statement that they should really just say "every 3 years". Although if you want to be specific, I do suburban driving with country driving mixed in. 10 minutes to work each day through easy suburban streets with a drive to Wisemans Ferry most weekends. Hardly harsh conditions!

I think I could easily fall within the 5 year replacement recommendation as stated in the owners manual.

The car is being inspected by Alfa Romeo currently. Will wait and see the outcome.

Cheers,
Greg

[Brad M]

My belt is due in December and it almost makes me want to do it now rather than risk it. I also have not done anywhere near 60,000 since last change....

Tony, please get yours done if you haven't had it replaced in the last 3 years.

they should really just say "every 3 years".

Yes they should Greg, hope it all works out for you... welcome to the forum.

After reading all the horror stories my cambelts would get done at 2.5 years, regardless of what I think the operating conditions were.

[tony8028]

Tony, please get yours done if you haven't had it replaced in the last 3 years.

It will be 3 years in December. What I am thinking is that I should get in early and do it now....I bet these things can snap a month or two either side of that time frame too.

[wankski]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think you have hit the nail on the head Rory. When I was sold the car, the cam belt was to be inspected at 60,000 and replaced by 120,000. The question is whether Alfa Romeo did enough to alert me to the changes in recommendations.

I think I could easily fall within the 5 year replacement recommendation as stated in the owners manual.

The car is being inspected by Alfa Romeo currently. Will wait and see the outcome.

Cheers,
Greg

all alfa mechanics would be aware of the update... the truth is alfa revised the life expectancy down... i'm sure there is some clause that alfa will warrant only work done by accredited specialists or even just dealers, so if you took it to a non alfa guy after 2.5yrs, u're prtty much boned...

in any case, all the best for the outcome, but i myself expect them to say no or at best offer a small rebate/discount. hope i'm wrong.

Can anyone post a photo of what a cam belt brake actually does to an engine ? It seems to be diabolical.

some pics below... the belt can break in very bad cases - usually just slips... this will mess up the timing and the valves will impact the pistons... total cost is dependant on what gets taken out in the collison... sometimes pistons get holed (rare), but the real question is how many valves get damaged... sometimes u need all 16 done... sometimes u get away with just 6-8 valves bent... no one can anwer this until the head is removed...

in ALL cases you must also remove the big end bearings and replace... the impact on the piston will travel down the con rod and flat the big end shell leading to big end damage and an expensive crank regrind down the track. IN ALL CASES MAKE SURE YOUR MECHANIC REPLACES THE BIG END BEARINGS AS WELL AS REPAIRS THE HEAD.  While the head is out you might as well replace all guides and rebuild or replace variator, and of course a complete new waterpump and belt kit including tensioner idle pulleys and balance belt ought to be installed.