Full engine rebuild quote?

[DBonelli]

I was quoted a very rough price for a full major engine overhaul at $3,500. Does this seem about right?

[Davidm1600]

I would say that doesn't sound too far wrong, the problem being, engine rebuilds can mean different things to all sorts of people so in one sense the answer probably needs to be read as, it all depends.  That includes what type of Alfa engine ie Nord (101, 105, 116) Twinspark, JTS, V6 etc.  Also precisely what needs to be done, whether standard or alternatively you are seeking improvements to be made (ie. big valves, springs, improved camshafts, porting polishing, oversize pistons, forged pistons, crank work, balancing), let alone allowing for just how far the motor needs to be stripped down, work to be done ie. to the block, head, crank, let alone parts that need to be replaced.  Finally also it also depends on the rate of exchange for parts to be aquired, and the price of labour of the mechanic you may use. 

There are so many variables.  I have had for instance been quoted less for an engine to be rebuilt, but similarly have spent that sort of money in the past on a standard engine rebuild.  I am also all too well aware of the types of costs that people for instance may spend on a race engine. From memory, this usually starts well up from $10K.  Good luck, as I am assuming you need to overhaul a motor ?  Dave

[DBonelli]

Yes it's my standard motor in a 2l 1978 GTV, so a 116 yeah? The engine is the original build and is smoky and is burning heaps of fuel and oil for the millage. I was hoping that quote was parts and labour inclusive... damn if it isn't.

[Davidm1600]

Damned bad luck mate.  Yes definitely a 116 Nord engine, and essentially the same as a 105.

If you get in touch with Mike, he has a couple of engines for sale (though if memory serves me correct 1.8 rather than 2.0).  The alternative is to perhaps get in touch with Marc at Milano Spares or similar to see if they have anything available.  I managed to get a replacement 1750 engine in good nick of Marc for my 1750 GTV for about $1100 a couple of years back.   

I guess the other thing to consider is to keep an eye out both here on the forum under the for sale sections for engines for sale, or ebay. 

Otherwise there is probably no alternative but an engine rebuild and in truth you probably won't know the extent of cost until it is stripped down.  However, if it is smokey under power then it is most probably rings and bearings etc, if smokey on the overrun, ie when backing off downhill than its likely to be valves, valve stem seals etc. Hope that makes sense.

It is possible you may only need to either the bottom or top end of your motor and that perhaps might limit the cost of repairs.

Either way it will cost some $$$.  Dave

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Join your local club and get to know a few people.  Within a few months you'll get a good engine for $1000.

[MD]

DBonelli,

Some general advice for you.

People who buy old Alfas in the desire to restore them often underestimate the cost of doing so. This pretty much goes for any make of vehicle and Alfas are no more expensive than other cars in the main. The extent of the cost depends on how much you expect out of the car in terms of performance and reliability, how mechanically practical you are and who the service providers are that charge for the work.

New owners will often start with the engine and when it starts to perform like it should, deficiencies in all sorts of other areas come to light such as the drive train, the brakes, the gearbox, night vision from shoddy lights and the list goes on. After you use it for a while, you realise the air con needs fixing. The heater demister doesn't work and the muffler now has a hole in it and it leaks from the manifold as well. The rear dampers are next to doing nothing and you are developing a wheel alignment problem from shot ball joints because somebody put a new tyre on the front left so it wouldn't show when you bought it.

What I am getting at here is that you need to have a holistic idea of what you want to do with this car (any car). If you just want to make it mechanically as complete as it once was so that you can jump into it and experience an Alfa like it was meant to be, you need to sock away $8-10k. I can assure you that your expenses are not going to end with the engine. It is that simple. Any less depends on how fussy you are and what results you are looking for.

It is always a better strategy to spend money to turn a basic well worn car into a dependable good thing where you know how good it is because you know what's been done to it as opposed to buying one at that same price as your costings hoping it is a good thing just because it falls in the same price range.

[VeeSix]

You can easily get another good running motor for under $800, actually you could probably get another GTV with a good motor for that price.

[Darryl]

Why are so many people suggesting to swap the motor for something that may be only marginally less stuffed (or worse - it's a lottery)?

That said, it is impossible to give a valid opinion on what anyone should do in these circumstances without knowing the overall condition of the car (not just the engine, as MD says that is only part of it), more/all the circumstances, and what the OP's plans/interest in the car are/is. Spending that kind of money on a rebuild is a perfectly reasonable thing to do on an otherwise good (meaning something that isn't a basket case, not some unrealistic proposition of a car that will never need anything else done to it) car that you plan to keep for a few years, and getting the whole job done, on an engine that has seen some kms, is going to save $ over doing 1/2 the job now and 1/2 later, and will let you enjoy the car without wondering what will go next.

The original question re costs - sounds ok to me (subject to all the usual re "what is included"). If you can get a list of what is included (in however much or little detail) you will get a better answer. But regardless - if you are taking it to a reputable specialist, I'd expect them to be being realistic re what needs doing, and to stand behind their work.

So far as club members with second hand bits goes - Hammer is trying to get rid of bits off a GCL including the engine... See AROCA QLD classifieds. But if you ask him, he might well agree with a few other nutters up here - maybe the sun is getting to all of us?

[Repco Lad]

Hi guys

When I bought my GTV6 and first joined the forum (about a year ago), some-one posted a list of the 'cost' of restoring a car.

From memory it had a breakdown of all areas- body, engine, suspension etc with estimates of costs to restore/ replace

Could be useful in budgeting for work you want to complete

Had a hunt through my files and can't find it.

If the author is out there, maybe they can post it again??

Regards

RL

[MD]

Hi Repco Lad. That was my post.

I don't think it is appropriate as DBonelli does not appear to be at that stage of his acquisition. The poor guy is having a mild fit already me thinks from the figures floated so far. He has made no further comment so I suppose he is digesting the dialogue.

[david sammartino]

Considering all opinions on unkonown condition of engine, the cost of parts today, and the fact that these days every engine you pull down is 20 years plus and well and truly worn out, regardless of past minor freshen ups, i actually find it really hard to believe anyone could quote a full engine build for 3500. imo thats just lunacy, new sleeves and pistons are 7-900 alone, cam followers etc, hey a full gasket set is a few hundred. lmao if i were you, i wouldn't be thinking bout it, id be rushing onto that quote as the guy is obviously working for free and maybe even contributing from his own pocket for parts just to be a likeable bloke.
Unless a complete engine rebuild to him is just a set of 150 piston rings, a quick de-glaze, a head gasket and a wash of the engine bay, all of which he'd still do in the car of course as its tottally possible, and about right for 3500.

[Domenic]

Hey Dave, you forgot to add the cost of removing and replacing the head studs.

Being a 20plus year old engine the studs would be corroded and when the head gets re torqued there will be at least one that snaps.

[DBonelli]

Thanks for your opinions and suggestions. I am keener to have my current engine rebuilt by a professional, I want to keep this car for a while yet and really I honestly think this is one of the nicest tidiest near original GTV's in Australia. I live in Brisbane and only have Avanti at Northgate work on my car. I only just 12 months ago or so had my donut-joints and tail shaft and centre bearing all refurbished and rebuilt by these guys, this cost me about $1100 and I'm pretty pleased and confident that these guys know what they are doing with these cars. It is true that I have been spending a lot more money on this machine then a sane practical person should, but I really like the machine and how unique it is. It's not daily drive machine either and I've only done about 6 thousand k's in the past 3 years.

I'll find out what exactly is covered in this price. I'm expecting obviously new piston rings, bearings, deglaze, valve stem seals, major carbie overhaul... What else should I enquire about?

Please have a look at this website, this is the car before I bought it, you can get some idea as to why I think she is very much (to me) worth it. http://www.antiquesreporter.com.au/index.cfm/lot/18476-1978-alfa-romeo-gtv-20-chassis-no-ar116370004879-engine-no-ar016/

[Darryl]

Looks like a nice car. And it would seem to have found the right owner too.
And really, I think you should be able to get all the advice you need from Avanti....

[DBonelli]

It's always good to seek a second opinion before I commit to spending $3500 on an engine