Full engine rebuild quote?

[MD]

Some tips for you do-it-yourself engine rebuilders:

A little story that maybe you can relate to. I know I am in there somewhere.

You got a smoking engine and so you give it a valve grind, replace the guides and stem seals. You probably gave it a de-coke around the combustion chamber, fitted a new head gasket and stitched it all up. After about a 1000ks you re-torque the head for good measure. We assume the state of tune is ok.

Excellent. You now have good sealing around the valves but the compression test is still low and uneven. Hmmm, bugger, you didn't want to have to hone the liners and fit new rings but looks like you got no choice. More bugger. Now you gotta take it all apart again and pay for a new head gasket too.

So now you pull the engine out, you strip it down and hone the liners and replace rings 'cause you know how to set ring gaps. The bearings seem sound so you put it all together again and it runs fine. Matter of fact it now runs better than ever. Joy oh joy.

Two months go by and there is a progressively louder heavy knocking somewhere low down in the engine and a lighter and different knocking somewhere around the cylinder head. WTF is that ? You fixed everything. What's the problem?

Well there could be many but most likely bearings-mains and gudgeon. You didn't change them did you? They looked fine but you didn't actually put a micrometer on the crankshaft nor measure clearances. Did you set the correct clearances? Did you apply the correct tension on the mains and big ends. Is your torque wrench calibrated? How do you know you have applied the correct tension? Have the big end bolts stretched because you didn't fit new ones. Did you have the oil galleries cleaned including the ones in the crankshaft? Could your problem be oil starvation due to a partial blockage coupled with an oil pump that needs to be replaced or rebuilt?

You got lucky. Actually it was none of those things because you were arsey. Where it all fell apart is when you rebuilt all the upper part of the block and this means you now have original compression but running worn bearing clearances. The extra hammering these parts are getting is actually caused by you because you are now using the engine with gusto and why shouldn't you. It's going great. Er..was going great.

Another words, your poor and incomplete attention to detail has caused you to ruin your own engine.

Good mechanics pay attention to ALL the details and ensure a thorough end  to end job. You get what you pay for.

A tip for you non-finger pokers

Get a fully itemised quotation of what is actually going to be done when the engine is reconditioned. If you are not confident that you understand what is spelled out for you, get a second opinion from another mechanic or the RACV/ NRMA/ RACQ. Any deficiencies in the quotation should be sorted before you start the job and not after.

[NigelC]

My Group S GTV is getting new pistons, piston liners, camshafts, bearings, top and bottom cam chains, oil-pump and carburettors fitted, plus obviously all seals and gaskets and $3500 will just about cover the labour.  Parts are extra.  

You can buy a cheap engine or you can get a cheap rebuild but ultimately you will get what you pay for.  Remember, when these cars were new, not every Joe could afford such a luxury sports car.  They never aimed to provide economy motoring.

[bt46]

MD you are correct however I was suggesting a low cost repair on a low milage engine.
You really wont know what needs to be done until you remove the sump and head.
You are painting a dooms day senario which can happen to even the most carefull rebuild.
All I know is at this stage I wouldnt be throwing 1000's at a standard rebuild on a GTV when the car is still worth nothing.
If it was my car I would be more than comfortable with some rings and guides as Its worked for me plenty of times before.
Having said that I have pulled a few engines that were just.....how do you say.....fucked...... so I know where your comming from.

[MD]

bt46

You will note that I painted myself in that picture. The reason is that it has happened to me in my younger days when I was keen but without experience. I crashed and burned several Fiat engines by doing just what I have described. By the time I started to work on Alfas I was a bit older the wiser. However, the principle is the same.

Learning to do your own work under the guidance of a knowledgable friend or mechanic is the best way to do your own and learn.

[bt46]

MD He certainly would benifit from a helping hand. That way he might not install camshafts 180 degrees out and bend all his valves. Of course I never did that:)
For my mind you gotta learn somehow because if hes going to clock up the miles he may as well learn how to change donuts, head gaskets and syncros.
Chasing bad earths is also a good skill lol

[DBonelli]

A lot of information and a lot to think about. My experience with working on engines is zip, I'd love to learn. I'll keep you guys informed with what I do next.

[bt46]

DeBonelli
Its good to see your thinking about your options rather than rushing into anything.
Another good way to learn would be to purchase a parts car (GTV) for $500. By the time its reduced to a cut up shell being dropped of at the scrap metal yard you would have achived level 01.

[Alfalfa]

if it makes you feel any better I paid around $6500 for a full "standard" rebuild on my 2ltr.

of course I got a little ripped off however, he gave me a 2 year warranty on it..

hindsight is a wonderful thing, don't spend as much as I did on the engine.

[Darryl]

if it makes you feel any better I paid around $6500 for a full "standard" rebuild on my 2ltr.

of course I got a little ripped off however, he gave me a 2 year warranty on it..

hindsight is a wonderful thing, don't spend as much as I did on the engine.

Yeah - that would leave you short for cash, which you must have real need for, to make your tag line true

And DBonelli + Paul, I think everyone up here knows who Avanti are. MD and I would almost certainly agree on at least one alternative, but he's busy enough already...

And can I just suggest, that a good way of learning might be to take an interest in the work a professional does on your car, and do the maintenance / less technically exacting work that comes up on the car yourself, and not dive in at the deep end doing an engine rebuild yourself first up.