Finally Back on the GTV6 again - no start problem

[shane wescott]

Hi Guys

Finally got back to the GTV6. The Ducati is regoed and rideable and it's about time I had a drive of a REAL car rather than Rav4's and Prado's.

I was cleaning the chain of the Duke for a run tomorrow and I heard this sobbing sound behind me - you guessed it, the GTV6 was having a sook - fair enough too it's been left  broken for too long.

So recap of the problem

No start, starter turns all good, no wierd sounds. If you spray some start ya bastard into one of the small ports in the plenum you get a kick.

I had thought it was a fuel pump issue so I swapped the unit with the one on the 75 beforehand but that didnt fix things.

So this morning on the net bit of research and out to put the original pump in. Blew through the filter it was marked 2002 so probably due for a replacement.

Tested the pump with 12v and it goes o.k.

So refitted it.

Some stuff on the net suggested that if you hold the airflow vane out a bit when the ignition is on, the pump will kick in - tried this and it didnt make the pump go??

Can someone confirm this is what should happen.?

Also found that if you short 88y and 88d on the dual relay you should get pump - this worked :-)

I had previously pulled the dual relay to bits, people on the net suggest that it burns out, and I am a radio tech by trade, but mine LOOKS good as new inside but still could be stuffed.

Read through the wiring diags but doesnt make sense.

With the cover off the relay, if I push the relay down, I also get pump.

If I short the pump for a while I hear "pressure" noises from around the engine, and if I fire it up I get some short term running :-)

So definately a fuel supply issue, for some reason the pump is not kicking in when it should.

Other than replacing the dual relay, any other ideas Brains Trust.

Thanks in advance.

Shane

[dehne]

you can shortcut the relay and run a wire so that when you turn the accessory on the pump will run have had the inlaws 90 running this way for 6-7 years, someone will tell you the exact wires

[dehne]

well to fix it properly is buy another relay

[shane wescott]

Cool Guys.

Sound like a new relay it is. If I get bored to night I might pull it in and see if the diodes or coils are buggered. Diode wold be a 50cent fix coil means a new relay anyway.

Thanks for the help guys.

When I did short out the contact so the pump runs it does start and run, may give it a longer run like this but I do want it fixed properly.
I will update with some pickies of the inside of the relay If I fix it.

Catch ya

Shane

[shane wescott]

Ok.

Some basic electronics.

Relays are basically a coil, you run current through it it kicks of a magnetic effect and closes some contacts controlling some other circuit.

Diodes are semiconductors which pass current through one way and not the other. Current flows in the direction of the arrow symbol and you need positive towards the flat part of the symbol and negative towards the pointy bit of the symbol.

By looking at the diagram of the dual relay you can see that there are a couple of spots you can jumper 12 volts onto and you should get a click.

Put a +12 on 86c and a -ve on 85 and you should get a click - and I did :-)

If you put +12 on 86 and -ve on 85 you should also get a click - and i didn't :-(

I left the -ve on 85 and then put the +12 as close to the coil as i could (pointy end of the diode) and still not click.

COnclusion - coil that controls the fuel pump is stuffed :-(

Oh well, I needed something to do while I had a beer.

There is also a picky of the inside of the dual relay to show it is more than just two coils ( i assume this is how they justify the cost).

Hope this help someone else.

Catch ya

Shane

[shane wescott]

OK here we go, how to save $140-190 dollars on a new dual relay for the GTV6 Fuel pump and Injection. Replacement Bosch number is 0 332 514 127 just for reference.

Back from the Ducati ride :-) Blackie was in top form with no breakdowns :-)

Got back, again heard that sobbing sound and decided I wanted the GTV6 fixed today. After some research I also saw the new dual relay is somewhere between $150 - $200 :-(

So rather than waste 9 years in the airforce as a Radio Tech, I thought I would put those skills to go use and rebuild rather than replace after all thats the Green thing to do isn't it :-) Any resemblence of myself to a Greenie is purely coincidental and never intended by my Mother.

Purchased a $7 relay from Jaycar (SPST 12v 30 A horn relay) not very green because we drove there in the Prado, and I will show you how to do this mod.

Now I do agree that I don't just want to jumper the pump to the ignition circuits, which I know will work, but I would like to keep the integrity of the design for safety. After all this part probably WASN'T designed by the Third Year Apprentice, unlike most Alfa body and ancillary bits :-) .

So the plan is mount a new relay, and wire it into the dual relay circuit board.

I desoldered the old relay and a quick check with the meter showed the coil was stuffed.

Use some desolder braid (used to be called Dick Wick from Dick Smith  ) and suck up all the old solder to remove the old relay. You can see the main desolder points marked on the picture below. If you have a temp controlled soldering iron setup like me this is ideal as you can avoid burning the board and getting what we used to call "Frogs eyes" .

The other two connections in the middle of the picture have to be desoldered and this is where the connections to the new relay coil go.

Firstly I connected the two wires which will drive the relay coil, then the two which connect to the contacts, these provide volts to the fuel pump and to HV1 which is the +12 for your cold start injector.
I made a small hole in the plastic base so my new wires could go through and mounted it in the car via a trusty tie strap.

Ignition on and now when I open the Air flow Meter the pump comes on   When I start the car the pump comes on 

It still didn't fully fix the GTV6 and that is the next post 

So for about $7 and a half hour or so of stuffing around, I have a "new" dual relay – bargain.

Hope this helps someone.

Catch ya

Shane

[grpa9x]

hey shane, clever stuff , well done.
cheers michael

[shane wescott]

Excellent Mate.

I expect to see a couple of "As New" ones on ebay soon :-)

Happy soldering.

[shane wescott]

Scratch my savings estimate - it appears I saved about $260 !!!!