v6 conversion

[BradGTV]

i need a bit of help...

between my dad and i we own a 83 GTV, a 84 GTV6 and a 78 GTV.
now, the 78 is going to be a track car so thats out of the question. but i need a daily driver and couldnt choose between the gtv6 or the GTV.

the GTV is red and has not one spot of rust or body damage, the paint is great and interior is mint, the car recently (before we bought it) had a crash and the front end was replaced with brand new corello headlights and a new grille. it has relays on the headlights and it has volvo 4pot calipers, konis all round and bilstien rear springs, not to mention new bushes through out the front and rear end! so basically its a fantastic car 

and the GTV6 has body damage from a crash, a few spots or rust, bad interior, clunky front suspenion, and most the electrics dont work, the grille is craked, the headlights are dull and full of water, no lights work only one brake light, its all standard but in very poor state and needs a full re-spray, and a fair bit of $$ spent to get it up to an ok condition.

so we have decided we want to put the v6 engine and gearbox, de dion onto the 4cyl GTV, and wreck the GTV6. so can someone please tell what is required to transfer a v6 engine and gearbox into a GTV body shell??
Cheers, Brad

[boyracer105]

HI there
i have done this conversion and it sounds simple but the 2000 is a differant body shell to the GTV6, the engine mounts are in differant postitions and sizes, the other problem was the gear shift at the gearbox was hitting the floor nothing but a oxy couldnt fix to the floor. The car works well now up and running. hope this helps.

[BradGTV]

thanks for the info,
engine mounts and body modification is very easy for us,
what gearbox did you use? v6?
what about driveshaft/propshaft?
was there any modification needed to the tunnel?

cheers, Brad

[boyracer105]

Hi Brad
It was a twinspark box no mods to the box mounts just need to give the gearshift mechanism area to move.
the tailshaft and drive shaft were v6 no mods, tunnel was all ok.

[BradGTV]

thanks very much 
so the rear engine mount/bellhosuing lined up in the standard position?

our plan is to install the standard 2.5 v6 and then in the next couple of days pick up a 164 and install the 3.0 

anyone know if the gtv6 gearbox will work with the 2.0 speedo?
cheers, brad

[aggie57]

The gearchange clearance is most likely a pre and post isostatic issue.  Is the V6 isostatic or not?  They changed over around September 1984 so your 1983 GTV will be pre (the original simple mechanism).  Meaning, if the GTV6 is isostatic you'll need to change over the complete gearchange including the gear lever (it's a different length) and the floor in the later cars has an indent just in front of the rear seat to clear the isostatic mechanism.  Both easy changes.  

Also don't forget that the wiring looms are different and on 4-cylinders (at least the early ones) the engine loom is an integral part of the main loom.  Can't say if that's true of GTV6's but regardless you'll need to use some of it.

Personally, given the number of reasonable GTV6's that come up for sale I'd question the sense of doing this.  Especially as it sounds like you have a very nice GTV that will end up as a bitsa.

[BradGTV]

thanks choderboy,
yes that is my plan, does anyone know if i can simply drille out the spot welds on the gtv6 mounts and weld them into the gtv body?

i could be totally wrong but would the engine be on a angle, then when it torques it twists straight? so the driveshaft is alligned square?

sorry for all the questions but i would like to know excatly what i need to do before pulling both cars apart, and plan for each issure not discover them as i go

[BradGTV]

hi wankski,

i have considerd the twinspark conversion and almost bought one, but it neede a rebuild and the gtv6 came up and it was to cheap to pass up.

the gtv6 bonnet will deffinalty be re-sprayed and put on, one to clear the plenum and two because it look killa  as will the v6 hubs and re-dedion and some 17x7 147 wheels.

ive considerd the dash, but fear it might be a fair bit of electricaly work?? does anyone know if its a pretty straight forward conversion??

yes the TS has about 150hp, but a 164 3.0 v6 has about 35hp more than that 
cheers, Brad
 

[BradGTV]

hi aggie,
yer the v6 is isotalic and the 4cyl is not, but ive heard i can use the isotalic gear lever with the non isotalic linkage, which can be modified to fit the isotalic gearbox.

im hopeing i can use the motorinc injection from the 164, does anyone know if it can be used with a front mount gtv6 dizzy and not the camshaft driven dizzy on the 164??

it will be a lot of work, but nothing that hasnt been done many times before and it will be worth it in the end 

[aggie57]

hi aggie,
yer the v6 is isotalic and the 4cyl is not, but ive heard i can use the isotalic gear lever with the non isotalic linkage, which can be modified to fit the isotalic gearbox.

im hopeing i can use the motorinc injection from the 164, does anyone know if it can be used with a front mount gtv6 dizzy and not the camshaft driven dizzy on the 164??

it will be a lot of work, but nothing that hasnt been done many times before and it will be worth it in the end 

You'll seriously be much better to find a decent GTV6 as a base.  Especially now that you're talking about motronic as well; better to skip that altogether and put in an Autronic system........on a 24 valve engine.  Then you'll have a great car. 

[BradGTV]

i simply do not have the money to go out and buy another gtv6. the one i have is in terrible condition we only bought it because it was so cheap. trust me id love a quad cam, one day...

i hear what you guys are saying about re-sale value and making the car a mix match. but it doesnt really bother me, i hope to never sell this car and i doubt i will. even witht he v6 in, its still possible for me to return it to 4cyl if need be, the only hard bit is changing engine looms.

aftermarket is an option, i would build and install a megasquirt, simply because its darn cheap and is a good product, and there are plenty of maps for alfa v6 engines or retro fit the delco system from a commodore and have it re-mapped, plently of options.

[GTVeloce]

Hi Brad

The isostatic gearlever will not fit in an 83 GTV. I have a 83 GTV with a TS gearbox with isostatic and tried to fit it but the gear selector rod can't connect with the isostatic gear lever because the cross member that the torsion bars fit into gets in the way. Most people I have spoken to just use the original gear lever and the original linkages attached to the new box. I want to use the isostatic linkages because mine are in great condition so I am going to see if I can modify the length of the gear lever enough to give room for connection whilst still providing the range of motion required for the isostatic linkages.

And the TS engine is a better conversion in my humble opinion. It provides close to the power of a 2.5 but without the weight so similar performance but it has motronic (very smooth) and keeps the perfect weight distribution. It is also a very simple conversion. It doesn't have that sound however...

[BradGTV]

Hi,
i was under the impression that i could, because my 85 gtv has the isotalic but i guess that is a gtv6 body. in a way its good because the non isotalic shifter i have is cut down and modified for short throw  when converting from isotalic to non-isoltaic what is required at the gearbox end??

id do the twinspark conversion if i could get one for the price im paying for the 3.0, when i have everything ready to go from the gtv6 which will be wrecked anyway i cant see the point in getting the twinspark for ease of instaliation and better handling maybe if it was a race car, but its not, i like a challange and it will be a good learning curb and a short term project to keep me busy i know some of you will think its not the write thing because its such a good original car as it is, but im not fuessed if its not original, it will be made to suit my desire, if the new road rules permitted me to drive a turbo it would have an sr20det in it right now...

[AikenDrum105]

i would build and install a megasquirt, simply because its darn cheap and is a good product, and there are plenty of maps for alfa v6 engines

+1 - I ran my GTV6 on MS-II - perfect !

[aggie57]

Brad - the isostatic cars also have a different floor pan, the torsion bars are shorter and mount directly to cross members under the floor rather than the heavy cast removeable cross member your GTV has.  This is not a GTV6 vs GTV thing, the same changes were made to later GTV's and all 75's and 90's where built like that. 

To change an isostatic gearbox to a non-isostatic you need to pull the front of the gearbox casing off and replace the input shaft.  Not as hard as it sounds.  By memory the clutch slave also works in reverse on GTV6's - it's a pull rather than push - so you'll probably need to swap that over as well.  Oh, the half shafts are bigger on a GTV6 as well and again by memory they bolt up with larger socket head bolts at both gearbox and hub.  But maybe that's an early / late car thing.......