The GTV6 could be the biggest......

[paul edwards]

Hi All,

Just had a read of this and, Wow a GTV6 took on a few group B monsters (That's the class that eventually was band by the FIA  because it was to fast and getting dangerous) and look what happens......

http://www.rallye-info.com/carmodel.asp?car=15

The GTV6 could be the biggest  sleeper of all time. After all these years l think the GTV6 is really a Super Car that was never designed to be one. Even the FIA had  to do a re-assessment of it, but somehow l think it was for other reasons, (See link). Alfa aren't the only non French cars to have this happen, just ask the English about the Minis and the FIA after they finished first, second, and third in the Monte Carlo rally back in the late 60's.

The GTV6 may not have all the bells and whistles of a traditional "Super Car" for eg. V12 engine or multiple turbos and computers to keep it in a straight line,  but  what it does have is one of the best  production based chassis to  come from Italy, the "Alfetta chassis" way ahead of it's time, a pure joy and very rewarding from a drives perspective.  Even by today's standards it will outperform many cars ten times over, add to that the magnificent Alfa Romeo V6 and you can see the picture forming up nicely. Ok the really big HP numbers are not there but this doesn't deter the GTV6, it simply just gets on with it and performs so well every were else.

The funny thing about all this is it was a French Alfa team "Gema" that really got the flag flying for Alfa and it's mighty GTV6. (See Link).

The GTV6 in it's rally form didn't go unnoticed here ether taking the Aussie title in 1986 and runner up to a turbo charged, four wheel drive factory backed Mazda in 87. I remember reading some history about that year and l think the GTV6 in the hands of Greg Carr missed out on the top spot by only one second in 1987, not bad at all.

Jeff Witten from Rally sport mag said to me when l joined the local car club up here the N.E.C.C . which is all about gravel Rallying. "Do you remember Greg Carr in the GTV6, man that Alfa was so quick and sounded like heaven when Greg Carr had the wick wound up, absolutely fantastic to see and hear", l said "l didn't get to see it but have heard a few stories about Greg Carr and the GTV6".  Jeff said "whatever you heard it's true, it was amazing what Carr did in the Alfa".

People who have been following Greg Wyatt "redalfaracing" on this forum will see he has had some brilliant results with his GTV6 rally car, chasing down some very highly modified cars that have more power. To my knowledge the original engine is still in Greg's GTV6, l think it's been running so well that the planned upgrade to the newer quad cam 3lt. engine has been slowed down just a little, but really when Greg gets the new engine in and all running sweet, l think it will be a case of which way did he go syndrome for his competitors.

So is the GTV6 a Super car? l think so. On the "Fun to drive scale" it's in it's own class. A really good GTV6 can be picked up from around $10,000 and up. With a few spring rate and shock upgrades the GTV6 is a beautiful, fast and very capable classic sports car.

Cheers Paul     

[Sheldon McIntosh]

So is the GTV6 a Super car? l think so. On the "Fun to drive scale" it's in it's own class. A really good GTV6 can be picked up from around $10,000 and up. With a few spring rate and shock upgrades the GTV6 is a beautiful, fast and very capable classic sports car.

I'll play devil's advocate and disagree with you.  While you're right that with some spring and shock changes they are fantastic to drive, as standard they are not that flash in my opinion; the understeer is just diabolical and there is very little interaction with the driver.  So I would have to say that they are not a Supercar, because they require mods to turn into a really great car, and as standard they are far from one of the most fun-to-drive cars around.  They're not even one of the most fun-to-drive Alfas really. 

Just my opinion, and like I said, they CAN be made fantastic to drive.  Like any Alfa they have massive potential to be a great drivers car.  But they are extremely good looking, I got a semi checking out redalfaracing's GTV6 over the weekend, that thing looks pretty mean.

[shane wescott]

Sheldon you are alwasy the one to tone me down :-)

I agree with your comments, not the best car to drive in standard form. Gearing and no power steering make them a bit of a pain through the streets, but at speed, with the engine howling, and traveling through the twisty bits, they are enormous fun.

Just on the 1986 Aussie  rally victory, I think i am right in saying it was the last victory by a two wheel drive car.

Catch ya

Shane

[redalfaracing]

Paul, can't say i have ever lusted after power steering on my Gtv6 but a better ratio would be a good thing. Not worth the effort to change to ps to in from 3,6 to 3,2
However the new Giulietta has electric ps with 2,2 turns lock 2 lock. If that could be made to fit. Then i would be excited.
I think the single biggest improvement over stock is a good LSD, i don't think i could drive one without it!   

[aggie57]

My list for a road going GTV6, off the top of my head, is:

- power steering from a 75/90
- bars, springs and shocks (koni yellow cause that's what I know)
- LSD (either 75 or not, either is fine)
- lowered an inch or so
- more rubber (say 7")
- extended front uprights
- lowered rear roll centre
- Momo steering wheel with extension (cause I'm 6'4")
- shortened gear lever with bend to the right rear (same reason)
- ditch the standard seat and put in a Recaro
- rotary aircon compressor (because of all the glass in an Australian summer)
- 12-valve 3-litre

Oh wait, that's the car I sold in 1984.....damn!

[aggie57]

Now that's a great picture.

Paul - sorry to spoil the theory but the 911 is 6 second faster around the island than that GTV6 ever was.  1:55 vs 2.01.  It did 1:40 around the long track at Winton out of the box and is in the low teens on the short track.  It's not all on the straights but it is very sensitive to tyre wear.  The present ones have done 22,000 kms and the shoulders are gone gone gone.  At the last driver training day it was almost undriveable, not because of any imbalance but purely lack of grip.  Understeer, oversteer, wayward steer!  Tirerack is your friend!

Getting back to your thread though, the problem I think with GTV6 values is that, well, they're an Alfa.  It's just like 105 GTV's which are delightful cars, very collectable and a joy to look and and drive.  So much better than a TR6, MGB or any Healey.  But they simply don't have a resale value that reflects that. 

[alfa duk]

 Love the shot with 3 wheels hangin  and i will agree that it has its flaws but it is a challenge to find a better bang for the buck example around. Read the various magazines with top 10 this and that and the gtv6 seems to pop up, and when it comes to looks, they have always looked hot, even today. Ever noticed the big flared guards on the  production cars today. Try to take her out without getting a comment from someone and i bet its not a negative.  In time they will be appreciated even if the interiors fall apart

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Not worth the effort to change to ps to in from 3,6 to 3,2

You'd be surprised.  And you don't need the PS anyway, but the rack is definitely worth it.  I took the assistance off my track 90 when I did the engine swap and it's fantastic at anything over 5km/h, even with a 320mm wheel.  You're welcome to take it for a drive some time if you want to check it out.  Paul Edwards has driven it, he might chip in with some comments about it too.

Since you'll have the engine out at some stage anyway, I would definitely take the opportunity to put in the better ratio.  It's definitely noticeable, and every little bit counts.

[aggie57]

By memory those faster racks you're thinking of Paul were LHD only. Could be wrong - age / memory and all that.

[alfagtv58]

Have to agree with aggie57.  Dont kid yourself Paul, 911's can corner.  I race against them all the time in Group S, there are some cars that my Alfetta (2L not GTV6) corners significantly faster than (like MGB GT V8's arrrrgghh), the 911 is NOT one of them......they are good standard but even better once properly set up and driven, not sure about the modern 911's, but when I drove an '85 3.2 at Winton I found that you do need to adjust your driving style, once you do that.....wow!!

Sorry to veer back off topic again.

[aggie57]

Still it's a real shame Alfa didn't take the GTV6 down the same path as Porsche did with the 924/944/968 and BMW did with the M3 at least until they got to the E92 which kind of breaks the M3 mould.   Especially when the ES30 was real proof of what could be achieved.

I think that's your initial point Paul and no argument there from me.

[aggie57]

G'day aggie

Phillip island, didn't young Trent Harrison get down to low 1.55s in the Red GTV6, similar to your old car, only it had it's original 2.5 engine in it. Maybe someone can confirm this. That is a monumentally fast time for a 2.5 GTV6 considering  it's still a road going car.

Cheers Paul

Can't recall the exact time but yes, he was quicker although I'm pretty sure it was on R's whereas my time was on some old Falkens  

Funny thing though, I recall at one event following Hugh in that car into turn 1 and thinking "ok, now I can pick up some time so long as I stick with him" which I did and I did I (if you follow my logic) but afterwards thinking "mmmm...maybe once is enough for that!" 

[Paul Gulliver]

Phillip island, didn't young Trent Harrison get down to low 1.55s in the Red GTV6,

Just had a trawl through some old club results at Philip Island circa 2004 the best time i could find for Trent who must of only been 15 - 17 y.o at the time  was 1min .57.70 in over 2500cc super modified.

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,40/func,download/id,29/chk,80533115d7439eec399d812319b55080/no_html,1/fname,2004-06-06_Results_Phillip_Island_Sprint.htm/

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Jesus!! Allan Goodall did a 1.46!!  Hell's bells that's fast, even for a 24V.

[redalfaracing]

Greg you must have very fast arms and hands with your car, but l have never rallied my GTV like you have, only the Kahnacross, so much fun. l would imagine with the faster speeds in rally it would be pretty dam good but a quick steering rack would be even better l would think.
 

Paul, you would be surprised ... i think Khanacross requires faster arms than rally, I tend to set the car up for the corners first using the brakes( using a lot of rear bias) then with the go pedal. If you get it right it needs only a few degrees of turn in some 30-40 metres before the corner and then maybe a little opposite on the exit. If the roads are good and flowing, and you nail it, you hardly need to turn the wheel. Give you a lesson some day