2 litre engine will not fire..help needed please.

[MD]

...Only going for the coil so I can tell MD he was wrong  for once...

Been wrong many times but I am always happy to learn something by it so don't hold back. I am an expert on humble pie..

[Darryl]

The pointer is about 10mm from the M mark and between the M and the F mark. The F mark is just out of sight. looking in the dizzy, the points are not yet on the high point of the shaft and hence not yet fully open to the max gap.

If I'm understanding that description correctly, your points are open before F, which is the static timing mark, so timing is advanced, but by the sounds of it not by much so probably ok/good.

looks like I will have to remove the radiator now as I have noticed a small water leak from behind the pulley which carries the fan. Would it also be a good time to get the timing chain replaced or at least inspected/ Who knows when it was last replaced. I do not have a workshop manual for the car and I suspect this might also be a job for the pros....any idea of what it might cost?

Leave the timing chain alone - unlike a belt it isn't a regular service item, very unlikely you need to replace it. If it is loose you can adjust the tensioner easily enough yourself.

[mickl]

Well, the day started badly but improved significantly>>>

I was trying to find tdc on one and was using a length of 10mm wooden dowel as the indicator. The auto electrician arrived and I got distracted and forgot to remove the stick from number one. In the mean time auto elec was checking coil etc and got me to turn over the engine and you know what happened next eh? After about 20 mins of trying to extract the bigger bits of stick with long tweezers, we started the compressor and managed to blow all of the rest of the bits out of the plug hole.....and hoped that none were jammed in the valve openings. It seemed to work.
The auto elec was alot stronger than me and just managed to rotate the pulley until he had tdc on cyl one. Timing marks were well out so he loosened the dizzy and with some strong wrist action freed up the dizzy enough to do a static test and got the timing reasonably ok. Coil, condenser etc all ok.
he then closed the gaps on the brandnew sparkplugs to leave 0.5mm gap 9my owners manual does not give this info as it must have come with some fancy 4 electrode plugs which didn`t need adjusting)....hope this is close to what is needed?? Checked a plug after some cranking and determined it was bone dry so no fuel getting to the cyls.
Still no firing under cranking but we felt it was nearly there! He added jumper leads from his landcruiser to my new battery and we tried again....one or two pops now. We pulled out the start-ya-bastard, got a fire extinguiser ready, removed the air filter box and sprayed ether around the openings while cranking.....lots of coughs and splutters but it started to run. Engine stopped after ceasing spraying the ether though, so kept spraying until it warmed up a bit, the used the throttle and revved it up to 4000 and back for a minute  and somehow the fuel blockage was no longer there and the engine ran without the ether. Stopped it and recranked with it starting and running ok now.

I now notice a water leak just behind the pulley at the water pump. It is not a big leak but drips out  a bit and needed about 500mls in the radiator with the drips running down the fan belt and onto the garage floor. Can this be fixed with some of that bars leaks stuff or will I need to remove the radiator and water pump and fit a new gasket/
Sorry for the "war and peace" but I am not very mech savvy and am learning alot here.Mickl

[Darryl]

Sounds like you need a new water pump to me.

[Gary Pearce]

This is getting humerous.
All that is needed to fire a internal combustion engine is compression, spark & fuel/air mixture.
Firing order is 1,3,4,2
If you are unsure about the ballast resistor, disconnect it and connect ignition power direct to the coil. This will overload the coil & give you a more powerful spark, (like in cranking mode) and will only be an issue if left connected without the resistor long term.
If you think the spark is yellow,replace the condenser on the side of the distributor.
Forget spark plugs, any plugs will do to start.
If you are unsure about the timing, time the car statically.
If all else fails, I will buy your car!

[mickl]

 Gary, I would have nearly given this car away last week but we have got it going again so I am feeling better disposed towards it.....and also because of the money already sunk into it! There was not too much in the way of laughter after mashing that dowel either!

Darryl....I will put the water pump on the shopping list, thanks.

One or two more problem to resolve with the engine:
1  Whilst it now starts, it isn`t doing so that easily when cold and I think it is because there is no choke mechanism for the cold starts. Is it just a matter of getting a cable to attach to the dash knob or are there likely to be some fittings at the carb which have been removed? Where do I get a decent workshop manual?
2  I completed a compression check and think I have some sticking or badly adjusted valves: Cyl 1 was 130 psi dry and 140 wet; cyl 2 was 130 dry and 150 wet; cyl 3 was 85 dry and 93 wet; cyl 4 was 90 dry and 90 wet. Is there anything to the two front cylinders being much higher than 3 & 4? Would I also be right in thinking the rings are maybe a little worn but not too bad ly from the wet/dry comparisons?

Mickl

[aggie57]

This is getting humerous.
All that is needed to fire a internal combustion engine is compression, spark & fuel/air mixture.
Firing order is 1,3,4,2
If you are unsure about the ballast resistor, disconnect it and connect ignition power direct to the coil. This will overload the coil & give you a more powerful spark, (like in cranking mode) and will only be an issue if left connected without the resistor long term.
If you think the spark is yellow,replace the condenser on the side of the distributor.
Forget spark plugs, any plugs will do to start.
If you are unsure about the timing, time the car statically.
If all else fails, I will buy your car!

Agreed!

Mickl - on these cars the choke is redundant. To get it started from cold two pumps of the accelerator, foot off trottle and crank. It'll fire if all is well and then hold it on trottle at a few revs until it runs smoothly. If the hand trottle is connected you can use that while it warms up. Only takes a few seconds or less than a minute max.

On the compression, I don't recall if you said were you live but I'd be taking it to your local reputable Alfa workshop and have them check. Those numbers do seem very low all round.

[Gary Pearce]

With those compressions, I suggest that might have been the nub of your hard starting.
Low compressions? maybe you should sell the car to me?

[mickl]

Thanks again for the assistance.
Starting without ckoke is rather tedious as the engine will crank then fire for a couple of seconds before coughing to a standstill. Crank again etc for a minute or so until it decides to run a bit with no throttle then gradually quickly rev and release throttle until it is poss to hold at 2000 rpm to warm up. Using ether helps quite a bit but a proper thorough tune up will be what is needed. The car is unreg so I will need to hire a trailer to get it to a mech. As I live on the mid north  coast of nsw i will poss take to Newcastle. Does anyone have details of a good mechanic there? I have previously used John  Collins dyno for good results for my 260z.
A bit of research tells me I may have a head gasket issue with the two adjacent cylinders showing lower compression readings......can anyone verify?
Also, is the tappet cover gasket re-usable if I take the cover off to check the valves and the timing chain tension?
Thanks in advance
Mickl

[aggie57]

Yes, you can re-use the cam cover gasket.

[alfagtv58]

maybe you should sell the car to me?

If all else fails, I will buy your car!

Not sure what you are trying to say Gary, maybe you need to be more specific 

[Gary Pearce]

He he! I like Berlinas. But given that I have recently (misguidedly) purchased 2 more cars........I had better zip my lip.
By the way Phil, congrats on the new flag marshal. ( or are you planning her to be a contender....too)
Seriously though Mickl, come along and joins us mad lot at AROCA vic and you will enjoy the advice and help that will make the ownership of these wonderful cars even more enjoyable. Alternatively a visit to one of the Club Sponsored workshops would provide you with an enormous amount of help and advice at not much money. Might save you a lot of pain and trouble in the long run.

[mickl]

Thanks again everyone:
Chowderboy...no offence taken and you are right. When I am able to find a good mech locally at Newcastle I wanted to have a spare gasket ready in case he is unable to get hold of one at short notice.
Aggie....thanks for the advice.
Gary...I would like to join up with some guys who know the ropes and have some social events/runs but Melbourne is a bit remote from where I live in Nelson Bay nsw
Mickl

[mickl]

 The berlina is now firing up like it just left the factory. What a relief! After new head gasket, some valve adjustments, ignition timing set correctly, full weber tune up and new 95 octane in the tank (& removal of stale fuel from the tank by small elec pump). It is running well now thanks to Monaco performance in Newcastle. Some other issues have presented with electrics which I will start new thread on. Thanks to all for posting help to me on this topic over the months.
Mickl

[berlinaman]

Hi Mickl,

Glad to hear that at last you have got your berlina up and running and the brakes sorted. I have been wondering how you've been going with your problems. I have had my master cylinder rebuilt and a new set of pads fitted with positive improvement, but still have slight sticking, though not as bad as before and this odd increase in boost which occurs just after application of the brakes, almost like the second booster is not responding in snyc with the first. So the next, and hopefully the last job is to replace all the flexible hoses in the sysytem.
Anyway hope you get to drive your berlina soon and look forward to seeing some photos.

cheers
Tony