147 GTA Problem: Motor Control System Failure

[155 lover]

Thanks for that. I suppose my labour seems about right then - 3 hours. More shocked with the parts mark up here. $200 for slave and $200 for master cylinder. I saw them prior for around 50 pounds each in the UK and was tempted to order them, but I didn't think the mark up would be that crazy. In hindsight I definitely should have ordered them online. At current exchange rates and postage would have got both for sub $200AUD total.

[wankski]

yes and no... it sound like u got hit up around $700... i know $200 can be alot but if one of those new parts fails, u are now covered... teh mech will have to swap it FREE.. usually over 12mo period minimum...

if one of the parts u bring in is faulty... good luck... u're on your own, which usually means paying labour twice...

IME shipping in parts is only really worth it when u literally can't afford a big ticket item eg, q2 diff, 800 imported vs $1900 local, and the parts price greatly exceeds labour costs... or of course you're doing the labour yourself...

it's all good bud.

least it's problem solved, and u have an all new clutch circuit now...

[155 lover]

Yeah - got hit up for $750. Thought it was a bit steep and closer to $500 fairer, but from the information I've got from ringing around, it sounds like its around what others are charging these days.

Also - FYI, I did the Q2 upgrade a while ago and paid $1100 for the part from Sydney with full warranty and everything.

Anyway, thanks for all the help with the issue. I'm still a bit concerned I'll get another crazy message ECU warning message, but wait and see I suppose. Next job's the timing belt. I don't know what to do though. The belt was done at 27,000 kms in late 2007. It's now 43,000kms and June 2011. I know it's past the 3 years, but it's only done 16,000kms. I don't want to push my luck, but I was hoping to stretch it another 12 months. Lord knows I'll only do another 5,000kms.

[wankski]

$1,100 for a local q2 is a damn impressive price... well done! did that include new bearings and 4 seals i.e. full kit or just diff?

yeah, cam belt @ 3yrs replace... unfort... the risk is simply too great to defer for 12mo... esp, if you intend to keep the car for a while...

when it goes engine = cactus... an' the 3.2 is a good 'un...

u wouldn't care so much if it was a TS for example...

[155 lover]

That was for the full kit - I was pretty happy with the Q2 price. Unfortunately I decided to do the clutch at the same time as the gearbox had to come out anyway which was another $700 just for the clutch part. Labour was then the killer on the job, as I expected.

The cam belt is going to kill me though. I know I need to do it, but replacing a cam belt after 16,000kms is just ludicrous. The 30,000km/3 year mark still seems a bit rich to me that in this day and age they can't make one that will get you to 5 yr/100,000kms with ease, but I just cannot seem to justify having to replace a cam belt at 16,000kms because it's hit 3 years at this stage.

I'd be interested to find out what other car makes require a 30,000km/3 year timing belt replacement and what cost that involves. The cam belt is a cam belt + water pump job so it's going to be a $2-$3k at the least. Crazy, particularly that before hitting 50,000kms I will have replaced the timing belt and water pump (twice). Can't think of another car that would have the same problem (maybe a ferrari? lol)

[colcol]

The tensioners wear out on a distance, ie they turn X billion times and then they are worn out, they don't wear out on a time basis as they are not turning, however the belts will turn a few billion times and last for 3 years, but the problem is with belts, is they dry out and become brittle, and the teeth can break off which is the same as the belt breaking, the water pump should be replaced with one with a metal impellor[fan], the plastic impellors crack and at freeway speeds they spin on the shaft and do not pump water and the car overheats at freeway speeds, however round the city the fans do not slip as much so the car is less prone to overheating, as Wankski pounted out, look after that 3.2V-6, there are not many around and the ones that are are expensive, i saw one a few years ago for $6500+, if it was a twin spark it would not matter that much as they start at around $1500+ at wreckers, Colin.

[wankski]

further to what colin mentioned, you don't need to do the water pump again if you are sure it's been changed with a metal one - plastic has been phased out, and the metal one should last 100k kms no worries...

the v6 i believe has a better cam belt arrangement and life cf the fiat 4 design, but still... if it does go, no-one to blame... major ouch to repair or replace...

better safer than sorrier... 

[L4OMEO]

Hi guys

Wankski raises an interesting point in that the V6 cam belt arrangement was superior to the 4-cylinder. In fact, if you review the AR bulletin issued in 2006 which revised the cam belt change intervals down from 100,000km/5 years to 60,000km/3 years it only actually covered the 4-cylinder models. To my knowledge (and I'm happy to be proven wrong here) there has never been a factory-issued directive stating the V6 intervals had ever changed from the original.

My service book states something like 'inspection at 60,000km/3 years, replacement at 100,000km/5 years, unless harsh conditions dictate earlier replacement'.

Am I advocating stretching out to the full original interval? Hell no! But, there is probably (possibly) more margin than with the a 4-cylinder used in the same manner. Me, I'll be sweating every day from the 3-year mark until it's done. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing....

Cheers
Rory

[155 lover]

Thanks guys - I love the car and am happy to spend $ on it as I already have - I like to keep my alfas pretty meticulous. The possibility of having to do a timing belt so soon after the last one (16,000kms) is what's getting to me i suppose.

Either way, it would be good to get some sort of directive straight from Alfa about the 3.2v6 timing belt and water pump replacement.

I'll probably just try and stretch it out until the end of the year and then get it all done.

[wankski]

yes Rori, i believe u are correct, i just didn't want to say the v6 was good for 5yrs...

AR notice only covered 4 cyl models...

ATECO aus applied it model range wide, IIRC citing aus as a harsh climate....

anyway i believe we, and the OP, know what's what... make of it what you will...officially in aus... 3 yrs/60k kms...

[shiny_car]

The possibility of having to do a timing belt so soon after the last one (16,000kms) is what's getting to me i suppose.

Meh, my GT's belt will be 'due' next year, at 6 years. At 3 years, the car had travelled about 21K km. At 6 years, I estimate it will have travelled a total 28-29K km, so the belt will have seen 8K km!

I will have it changed. The only consolation being I can confidently retain the pump, idlers, and tensioner, because these were all changed at the 3 year mark!

As per Rory, it's for peace of mind!

[Craig_m67]

I don't think the V6 cam belt service frequency was changed by Alfa either.  Only the 4cyl petrol engines to my knowledge.  If you are going to change it, change everything in the critical path including the water pump, tensioners etc.

[colcol]

60,000kls or 3 years inspection, so you pay someone to remove your belts and tensioners to inspect, and you can't look at the belt while it is installed, so it has to be taken off to check the teeth, and then it all has to be put back on, would it not be better to put new a new belt on while it is all pulled apart, and do away with this inspection business, actually everyone seems to have a different idea of belt renewals, just remember as per all high performance engines, they have high compressions and the valves run close to the pistons, they are called an interference engine, that is belt goes, valves interfere with pistons, non interference, valves run further away from pistons, years ago i had a low performance car, after 18 years and 170,000kls, the teeth sheared off the belt and the engine stopped, no damage, but then it was not an interference motor, Colin.

[bix]

I would love to see a chain conversion kit for these engines. This was never a problem with my 30 year old 105 series.

[colcol]

Every time you renew the belts your timing is perfect again, until the belts stretch, with a chain, they also stretch and the timing goes out as does your performance and fuel economy, there is a certain V-6 that Alfa now use and when the chain stretches a lot the variable valve timing goes out of kilter and causes an engine alarm, i know a freind at work had this happen to his VE Commodore, and it went into limp mode because the chain had stretched, and the only way to fix it is a new chain which is a lot more expensive than a belt change, swings and roundabouts, Colin.