What 147 twin spark motors to avoid

[ANG156]

My 99 TS 156 doesn't burn oil. My sisters 2005 147 is the same.

I always believed the JTS motor is a heavy burner of oil and have heard that if not serviced regularly ie every 5000kms problems can arise. There was a rumour that in the JTS, fuel would slip through the rings and down into the sump. Hence why in some JTS motors when you drop the oil it is significantly black. My TS after 5000 is still gold.

I have considered upgrading the 156 to a GT possibly for a JTS version (lower fuel bill compared to a v6 and the fact that a 4cylinder is just as sufficient for my needs) but after hearing this unproven rumour i was a bit tentative. Anyone heard something along these lines?

[colcol]

I have a 156 JTS, and it uses about 250 mlls of oil every month or 1600 kilometres, the JTS stands for high pressure fuel mixture, and the jet of fuel from the injector can go through your finger!, in the real world this means there is high pressure in the combustion chamber which can force fuel past the rings causing the fuel to wash the oil off the bore, and causing the oil to be diluted with fuel, this is why extending oil changes in JTS's is a no-no!, but if you take for a good run everyday the dilution won't be a problem, as it will get burnt out, however if you do short runs and the engine doesn't warm up properly, your oil will be diluted and there will be a reduction in oil quality, so for short runs, change your oil more regulary, say at even 5,000 kilometres, i beleive that this is one of the reasons that JTS camshafts are prone to wearing out due to diluted oil being used, that have the lubrication property of petrol, also, some oils have a lot of detergant in them, [Castrol i have heard], and after a days running the oil turns black, this is not because its worn out, but because its cleaning the rubbish out of your engine, Colin.

[wankski]

i am going to skip the jts debate - but HIGHLY recommend the arese v6.... dude, just do it...

been looking @ GTs for a friend and the v6 is not much more expensive if much the same, and it is faaaaar better motor, reliability, power, sound it's what makes alfa, well.. ALFA.

jts has some good character, but the 3.2 v6 is one of the best naturally aspirated v6s in the world...JMO.

[ANG156]

Thanks for your replies.

An upgrade is some time off and since my 156 is probably not going to be worth much i think it will be best to keep it. I just am so amazed by the amount of power the TS has. I had a 33 16valve and 75TS before but i must say this kills them both. It just drives so well and whenever i take it for a blast i have second thoughts. The 156 feels like an extension of myself when i drive it. I never have to think twice when i overtake, corner faster or even pulling up fast and seriously when you find a car like that even though its a little older now why would you want to change it apart from the excitement of owning another alfa.

With regards to the JTS debate, how can anyone find a car with good history? Most people are not fussy like you or I and think oils are oils.

[colcol]

Regarding the twin spark vs JTS vs V-6 debate, there is no right or wrong answers, just different opinions, the twin spark is a great engine, but the airconditioner vents in the first series 156's are not as good as the 2nd series 156 which had the bigger centre vents, cruise control, stability control, curtain air bags etc, and the JTS engine replaced the twin spark motor, the V-6 would have to be one of the greatest production engines ever made, and it was a proper Alfa Romeo engine, where the 4 cylinders twin sparks were Fiat based and the JTS engine was used in the Lancia Lybra, the V-6 has a great exhaust note, but is a big lump of an engine that causes more understeer than the lighter 4's, so on a road with lots of corners  the V-6 would be more of a handfull, also the V-6 has higher cambelt replacement costs $2500 vs $1200 for the 4, but it might boil down to one thats in best condition or whether you can put up with poorer aircon, but no matter what, they are all great cars for us, as Clarkson said on top gear, you are not a petrol head unless you have owned a Alfa Romeo, Colin.

[wankski]

ha, all true!

but the belt costs are a bit high - specialist and dealer pricing - can be done for around $1500 for the sixes....

likewise, around 900 for the 4 bangers, altho they do have variators which are expensive locally - add ~$300.

so, much of a muchness. arguably the 6s have less cambelt problems and officially did not suffer the reduction from 5 to 3 yrs cf the 4s...

handling wise - if you care, once u fit a q2 and uprate the dampners there is no contest, the 4s eat the dust of the 6s. much has been said and made of the 'extra weight of the 6s' - which i personally believe is overblown... it is a iron block 4 vs all alloy 6 afterall, the TS alloy head ain't that big! iron is of course ~ 3x denser than aluminium.

but yes, the v6 weighs a bit more, and i think the under dampened (and sprung) handling vices are merely exacerbated in the heavier 6s which were always set up for more luxury than sport from the factory. Until u hit the GTA that is... 

[colcol]

Mr Wankski, you say you can fit a Q2 diff to a V-6, correct me if i am wrong, but i was under the impression that the Q-2's are only for the 3.2V-6 GTA's with the 6 speed gearbox, are you saying you can fit a Q-2 to a 5 speed V-6?, Colin.

[ANG156]

Col q2 can be fitted to many v6 alfa romeo's from the modern era ie 166, 156, GTA, GTV. I believe wankski has a Q2 in his 156. Q2's also came stock in some diesels such as 147 and I believe some petrol models in europe.

See link http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/156-147-GT-Q2%20Differential.shtml

[wankski]

Mr Wankski, you say you can fit a Q2 diff to a V-6, correct me if i am wrong, but i was under the impression that the Q-2's are only for the 3.2V-6 GTA's with the 6 speed gearbox, are you saying you can fit a Q-2 to a 5 speed V-6?, Colin.

not only the GTA 6sp box. The 2.5 v6 w/ 6sp transmission is the same gearbox, so can be fitted. The facelift cf3 is rare yes, but the 'phase 1' preface lift is pretty common to get in manual. They are all 6sp.

the phase 1 gtvs came with 5sp boxes, but can still be fitted with modded speedo pick up. The phase 2 and 3 with the same 6sp box can of course be fitted.

my 04 156 2.5 v6 has a q2 inside

Col q2 can be fitted to many v6 alfa romeo's from the modern era ie 166, 156, GTA, GTV. I believe wankski has a Q2 in his 156. Q2's also came stock in some diesels such as 147 and I believe some petrol models in europe.

See link http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/156-147-GT-Q2%20Differential.shtml

all true 

[bix]

I was at a very wet Winton with my 2.0 TS the other week. The standard diff was very underwhelming! Has anyone fitted one of the Quaife LSDs to their TwinSparks?

[colcol]

When you say the standard diff was underwhelming, what do you mean by that?, i have heard that some LSD's in front wheel drives unless set up correctly can be a real handfull, i fear that the main problem with the 156 being a good trackcar is like this person writing this, is that they are too heavy, a tubby Colin.

[bix]

Colin, there was just too much wheelspin coming out of the corners. I suspect the LSD would reduce this somewhat. I've also read they improve steering response.
Cheers,
PB

[Steve S]

A friend has a Quaife in a FWD Fiat. They do induce a lot of "power on" understeer and really change the handling dynamics.

[bix]

Steve, I was hoping for more oversteer, as I have plenty of understeer now!

[colcol]

Try left foot braking, it will put weight on the front wheels, and make it turn better, and don't apply power until you start to wind off lock, Colin.