What 147 twin spark motors to avoid

[colcol]

I heard that there are some twin spark motors to avoid in some 147's, not to be confused with the JTS motor that was only used in the 156, some of these 147 twin sparks had rings that caused them to burn a lot of oil, and they later went back to another design piston ring, if anyone knows about these please tell us, Colin.

[Steve S]

Some TS engines use a different set of rings. Notably the oil control rings are thinner and therefore you could say more fragile or susceptive to becoming blocked. I would not say this is a reason to avoid them, but they are not as robust as the others. A friend of mine had rebuilt his 156 TS engine and had the pistons machined to accept the larger rings. It cut oil consumption from some absurd amount to something more manageable.

I don't know which engines used these rings but I suspect it is the later ones, i.e. 2003+

[Park147]

Mine is a 2002 and I go through about a litre a week. Doesn't seem to blow any smoke though. (and its not leaking)

[pep105]

When I use to complain about my 147s oil consumption to the service guys at Lance Dixon they claimed the 147
used different piston rings, a low friction type, not sure on the details or the production dates but it may explain the variation
in oil consumption between TS motors.

As a reference mine would use between 800ml to 1 litre of oil every 3000 km, whereas a mate of mine who had an early 99 156 TS
at the same time had no such issues. I was told if the oil consumption exceeded this amount then there would be a problem but it never did. I did hear of another 147 at the time having its engine rebuilt under warranty.

I too would say it's no reason to avoid them, however 'robust' is hardly a term I would use to describe a 156 or 147.

But an Alfetta sedan....thats any story   a real battler like a faithful old friend  

P.S Brother in law has an Audi A6 2.0 T (detuned version of the Golf Mk V GTi donk) uses oil like a demon 1 litre + every 2000km
apparently these engines have oil consumption issues as well - German engineering pfft  

Cheers
Pep

[155 lover]

I had a 2001 147 TS for 2 years between 2007 and 2009. I didn't use hardly any oil but I suppose I was pretty meticulous in changing the oil every 5,000kms.

[wankski]

yeah, i wouldn't worry about it either... it's a 10 yo car now, and the TS isn't really a big deal for a diyer to pull the head and extract the whole piston after dropping the sump... u can take the pistons to a machine shop and have new rings fitted.... new HG while u stick the head back on, clean up the head and sump and voila, quick recon...

10 yrs + an alfa is about due for a HG anyway

same thing applies to any cars, but alfa especially.... upon checking out a second hand car, check the oil condition... a car that has a hard time with oil usually has forgetful or unaware owners and they almost always will be running low and dirty.... every TS and JTS i inspected had low oil... the v6 i bought had oil at max and sure enuff, even switching down to 10w-40 it does not consume any!

simple clues... 

[pep105]

I had a 2001 147 TS for 2 years between 2007 and 2009. I didn't use hardly any oil but I suppose I was pretty meticulous in changing the oil every 5,000kms.

And what I wasn't ? 

I think its more of the fact you had a good example. Meticulous oil changes should be a standard mindset i.e oil every 5000km, oil & filter every 10000km, on an Alfa or at least a car you give a shit about....

Thats what made it frustrating, more so the car it had replaced a 75 TS used very little oil and wasn't treated like a princess.

The dealer at the time was defaulting to 10W/60 (recommeded for harder conditions/spirited driving in the owners manaul - Selena Racing), as opposed to the standard recomendation of 10W/40.

Didn't matter the thing used oil - I had to suck it up & get over it.

Still a nice car though my wife still talks about - $#^%$%^

[Steve S]

I believe these engines use oil because of the engine, not the oil. My 147 has about the best service history you could imagine and it does use oil, about 1L every 2-3000km using Selenia racing. I am going to switch to 10/40 because Selenia racing is an unnecessary expense.

My dad's Falcon will use 2L every 5000km and my brother in-laws corolla is about the same. There are many other engines that also have high oil consumption but they dont seem to get a reputation for it.

[L4OMEO]

Many Audi's are notorious for using oil. I had an Audi-owning friend who, when arriving at a servo, used to say "Fill 'er up .... and can you check the petrol too thanks".

[pep105]

I believe these engines use oil because of the engine, not the oil. My 147 has about the best service history you could imagine and it does use oil, about 1L every 2-3000km using Selenia racing. I am going to switch to 10/40 because Selenia racing is an unnecessary expense.

My dad's Falcon will use 2L every 5000km and my brother in-laws corolla is about the same. There are many other engines that also have high oil consumption but they dont seem to get a reputation for it.

Blood Oath -  Exactly

Many Audi's are notorious for using oil. I had an Audi-owning friend who, when arriving at a servo, used to say "Fill 'er up .... and can you check the petrol too thanks".

 
My Brother in laws going through that atm and I give him heaps for it.
The Audi dealer told him to rock up when ever he wants with empty oil containers and they will give him free oil, so when we have a family function
I turn up with an empty Penrite container and say - Here ya go here's another one for ya for your next trip to Audi Melbourne chief.

Thats a good one Rory, ill use that at the next family dinner  ! 

[John Hanslow]

Do not know the specifics but a dealer previously stated that all twin spark engines are not the same.  

The 98/99 engine is ok and does not use oil.

The 2000/2001 across the series of cars is the 147 motor that does use oil !

Then 2002 is ok.

All about the rings and such like so the power is different too.  121 vs 110.

CHeers

[wankski]

All about the rings and such like so the power is different too.  121 vs 110.
CHeers

no factory TS was 121kw... i think you mean 114 v 110... that was early cf2 vs 3 which brought in more cats...

121kw may refer to JTS, but to be blunt, that was never 121kw either...

[bix]

Our 2000/2001 156 TS uses virtually no oil, and our 2003 147 TS also used next to nothing.
In support of Steve's comments, I have heard before that the size of the oil rings were changed in later models to reduce friction and potentially improve fuel consumption.

[John Hanslow]

You are correct wanski re 121kw for JTS.  As for the TS, there marginal difference and examples:

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2001/prestige-and-luxury/alfa-romeo/147/alfa-romeo-147-3048

Powering the 147 is Alfa's 2.0-litre Twin Spark four, which uses twin counter-rotating balance shafts, a twin spark, 16-valve cylinder head and electro-hydraulic variable valve timing to pump out 110 kW at 6300 rpm and 181 Nm at 3800 rpm.

http://www.carsales.com.au/advice/2006/medium-passenger/alfa-romeo/spider/used-car-advice-alfa-romeo-spider-199803-7423

Introduced at over $60,000 as a 2.0-litre four-cylinder only, the Spider was a big ask with 114kW arriving at 6000rpm to shift almost 1400kg

[colcol]

So if you were looking at a 147 twin spark, how would you know if you are looking at low friction, narrow ringed, oil burning motor to a normal friction, wider ringed, motor that doesn't burn oil, hold a white rag over the exhaust and check for oil residue, do a compression check, engine numbers, etc any ideas?, Colin.