Turbodeltas - it isn't personal

[Darryl]

Mr moderator who closed that other thread to replies (I presume): In among any personal sniping there was some useful info if you want to go looking for it. Maybe you should deal with the individual people/posts not the thread?

But anyway - so far as personal opinions go here are some of mine. Take them or leave them. Swear about them if you like. However, unless you have some actual contrasting experience to offer its unlikely it will change the mind of a stubborn b*stard like me.

I realise plenty of others on this forum have at least as much knowledge of these cars - not trying to make a big deal out of it. but, just so as to show I'm talking out of some appropriate orifice:
I've owned an Alfetta GT, an Alfetta GTV Turbodelta, a steel bumper alfetta GTV, 2 Alfetta sedans and currently own and am restoring the Alfetta turbodelta sedan. I wont mention the 75. And of course, along the way I've inspected and not bought a fair few.
And when I say owned - I don't mean turned over in rapid succession - I keep and maintain my cars. I've owned an assortment of other stuff, but barring one 2 year period, I've always owned at least 1 Alfetta for the last 22 years. You can draw other conclusions from that as well - mostly around my mental health. You don't need to tell me - I have a family to do that.

Anyway, on the specifics, I have seen the car Mike now owns on a couple of occasions, not long before he bought it. Body had been looked after. Mechanically had been looked after but maybe not "sorted" to the level needed for what the car was being used for. It isn't/shouldn't be a secret that the stock road turbodelta setup wasn't "sorted" to the level expected of a modern production car in the first place, so not a criticism of this example if one were looking for an *original* John French Turbodelta. It is very unlikely one would find one subbstantially better (+/- any short term what maintenance was done when items - which it sounds like Mike has covered, and some "cosmetics" like the interior) .

Then there is the car on ebay. With a bit of experience one can judge a lot from pics. But I do agree that there is nothing like a personal inspection so take my comments on Dehne's mate's car with a bit of caution:

The visible in pics rust is as bad (possibly worse in places) as the rust on my GT was when I sold it (for far less than the motor and suspension had cost me to do up, never mind purchase cost) to a mate's son who was an apprentice panelbeater. I believe he is now a very good panelbeater - when he started stripping it back there was a *lot* of rust so he had plenty of practice... That car, after he had restored it, was sold for what was a lot of money at the time - brilliant job on the body + the mechanical work it already had made it about the best GT you could hope for (I wonder where it is now) but it would have been totally uneconomic for anyone without the skills, tools, access to paint booth etc + time to do the bodywork, and it wasn't a moneymaking exercise given the time involved, even on apprentice wages.

Dehne claims the paint is original but it clearly isn't - the paint on these cars new was the same as any other new GTV - ie the plastic parts were not painted the body colour.... So we don't really know how what lurks beneath a respray of unknown provenance.

To the best of my knowledge the series number was not stuck on the side of these cars below the indicator (it wasn't on mine, Mikes or another one I inspected some years ago). Is there one on the glovebox as well?

Aside from the signs of some weather exposure at best and possible general neglect at worst in the engine bay, it looks basically original +/- a respray of the turbo "plumbing" which was originally black.

Wheels aren't original - should be 5 (ie includng spare) 15" V4 Simmons, gold centres.

I'd love to see this car done up, and I'm not having a go at the seller at all - I just think it will take a lot of work. If you have the time and the skills please save this car! If you don't met that criteria, it probably isn't the car for you.

The trouble with these cars (in general - not the ebay example specifically) is that they cost more to maintain / restore than a stock Alfetta GTV, but they are only worth (as far as I can tell from what little I know about what they have sold for) a little more than stock. I hope Mike is right and we see the price of them go up, if only because it will stop them all being scrapped as not worth fixing...

[Brad M]

Does anyone have anything to say about turbodeltas or has it all been said - in which case, maybe we can close this thread too.

Given the majority of responses here have had nothing to do with turbodelta's, I think you are right.

I have deleted ALL responses here that add no value to the thread, especially those complaining about attempts to clean the responses up to fit within the Forum Rules.

PM me if you have an issue, I won't post the content of our discussion on the public forum; to me that's the lowest denominator.

No one's opinion is useless, so lets keep it clean and respectful. Peace out!


PS: I acknowledge I could of handled the other thread better, I will be more ruthless with poor form in the future.

[116gtv]

Hey Darryl, fire away about my car here if you like..

btw, your sedan would enjoy the company !

[Darryl]

Anyone wondering what Martin and I are on about should see http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=7430.0

Nice project - but does your car come with a shed  
I'd go the stradale with this one - need something more sinister under the bonnet to back up the grp4 look....

[116gtv]

I'd go the stradale with this one - need something more sinister under the bonnet to back up the grp4 look....

hmm maybe, although with intercooling this motor should be good for a few hp, don't you think?

[Darryl]

Oh - it won't be slow I agree. But the sheer aggression of the grp4 seems to call for something very extreme. I do like that look though....

[Mike]

Can't wait till Darryl tries to sell a car :-p....but in the mean time...

It isn't/shouldn't be a secret that the stock road turbodelta setup wasn't "sorted" to the level expected of a modern production car in the first place,

All Alfetta's a are a heap of crap...by todays standards.  You did not clarify whether you were comparing Alfetta Turbodeltas to cars of the day or present day.  You could not be talking about cars of the day, since every article written about them praised their spec.  Comparing one to todays vehicles is rediculous.  Slower than a Hyundai, less equiped than a Suzuki and worse handling than my wifes front wheel drive Golf...no, any Alfetta compares very poorly these days....but you would not find me willingly parting with cash for any of these cars if they were to be my 'fun' project car.  We buy them because of their style from a day gone by, achieved prior to introduction of envrionmental, safety and social considerations, old cars got away with a lot, and styling benefited (in my opinion anyway...that is a speculative topic!).  I buy them beucase of what they can be....and I generally sell them because it dawns on me (to late) that I can not restore 5 cars at once...nor store them!

All these cars take cash, as much as you want to give, and when modifying or improving to try and emulate todays performance/handling etc eclipses the purchase price.  Alfas are amazingly good value and allow less well to do folk to enjoy just a hint of what those Ferrari owning folk do.  So in my opinion, purchase price is something to be negotiated for sure, but lets have some perspective.  Totally agree with Darryl, body condition is very important.

It is not appropriate to assess other peoples cars critically, on the web when not requested, when they are for sale. It's just not cricket, whether the comments be fair or not.  Especially when you may be a competing purchaser.

The implication that people are chasing high prices is interesting, since there are bugger all sales of the vehicles to compare with.  One way to look at it is that the turbodelta was basically double the price of a new Alfetta at the time.  Due to this fact they are very rare.  I epersonally made an offer for one of 20k whcih was declined by the owner.  It's condition was excellent and well worth the offer. 

I personally hope the prices contues to be sensible as they are right now, so that everyone has the opportuinty to enjoy them.  Skyrocketing prices of Torana's etc have ruined the chance of real enthusiasts owning them and they are now to scared to race them.  Insuance premiums are through the roof and the fun is gone.  No, give me a reasonably priced, rare Alfa ANYDAY, that way people can afford to own them, improve them and drive them like they were meant to be driven.

I've just convinced myself to keep mine, it's off the market.  Go buy Martins, he's done most of the hard work for you ;-).  Then enjoy an easily obtainable 300Hp and put the wind up a few ferrari owners at the track.

Cheers
Mike

[116gtv]

Well here's my logic. Reasonably solid Alfetta GTV4s in stock trim are selling from $2500-$3500. A well maintained one with a very good body/interior/mechanicals would be about at least double, particularly a steel bumper car, IF you can find one and your arent tempted by a shitbox 105 in disguise (for the same money) along the way..

Trouble is most have no experience with turbo Alfetta and therefore cant see the value in them. Imagine Alfetta sedan or a Giulietta turbo values- these cars are in standard form are worth peanuts to most buyers and have been chopped for spares like Berlinas for the coupes in their day...

thanks for the kind words Mike (also in the other thread..). The day will come and we'll get the turbos together incl Darryl's and Choder's

[Darryl]

Sorry if any of this sounds negative - seriously - I would really like that car in Stradale trim, and I'd like John French #1, but I have enough problems already ( . Nothing wrong with either of them for the $ etc... Great cars. I pretty much 100% agree with Martins comments.

Re the Grp4 - its just personal taste. To me, a Grp4 is a legendary monster and something that can't live up to the legend except in exterior appearance is a bit like R32 GT with GTR badges and a big wing..... Why don't you buy the kit and stick it on your GT mike Give it rally type ground clearance and you wouldn't have to worry about the exhaust.....

My comments about the car on ebay stand though - pricing was ambitious given condition - just look at what you guys have for sale.... Far better value.

I'm planning on having my car in tazzie with the 105 crowd next easter.... Anyone up for a sideline in turbo fettas? Celebrating the 32nd anniversary of the grp4?

[Darryl]

Mike,
Without the context of other comments made about the ebay car my post does seem a bit out of place and certainly I can see (now its pointed out) how my comments re your car in particular read. Believe it or not I was trying to, without sounding like a paid advertisement, say it was a good example, from a good home and would just need "looking after" as should be expected of limited run specials of the 80s, which are typically not sorted to the level expected of a production car of the era (imho) but at the time people (especially motoring journalists with a toy to play with) would overlook all sorts of things if the car had something "special". Its the same something special that makes some of us appreciate these cars and others think we are mad for not buying a Hyundai. I guess I didn't really need to discourage car as appliance buyers, but I do hope nothing I said would discourage someone looking for something special.

This was in contrast to a lot of stuff about the ebay car, that I probably shouldn't have responded to at all. In particular, as you say, I shouldn't have said anything about yours "uninvited".

[Mike]

I'm planning on having my car in tazzie with the 105 crowd next easter.... Anyone up for a sideline in turbo fettas? Celebrating the 32nd anniversary of the grp4?

Hell yes!  I already have Dave from Bega booked in for a fetta session when he comes down for that.  If there is enough interest, I'll put a fetta drive day together.  The track can be hired for a measly 100 bucks each all day, so for very little money we could enjoy a great session

Darryl, I was fine with comments made about my car, I know it's a good one.  I was more concerned about comments about others cars.  I'm from the school of thought that says let people sell their good/bad cars and buy/don't buy.  If someone wants advice about whether to buy, you give it to them in private and let that be that.

No offense was taken on my part at all, just sharing a view about this website in general....and no, I missed all the kafuffle about what ever stuff was removed.

[Darryl]

I'm planning on having my car in tazzie with the 105 crowd next easter.... Anyone up for a sideline in turbo fettas? Celebrating the 32nd anniversary of the grp4?

Hell yes!  I already have Dave from Bega booked in for a fetta session when he comes down for that.  If there is enough interest, I'll put a fetta drive day together.  The track can be hired for a measly 100 bucks each all day, so for very little money we could enjoy a great session

I guess it might be worth talking to the Turismo organising committee for seeing whether this can fit in with other planned activities - I wonder what they are - maybe theres a track day already....

If not I'm up for tacking it on at one end or the other...