Knocking Noise suspension - Upper control arms or steering rack?

[lmcpaulm]

Hi Rory,

Apologies for taking a couple of days to get back to you.

- did you go for the non-genuine items at shop4parts?

I went for the genuine items at shop4parts... they came with the Alfa Original tags on them too which was reassuring. I have heard non-genuines can be problematic and not last as long.

- did you also order new top nut & bolt, and new bolts for the lower wishbones?

I didn't order a new top nut and bolt 

- I see you're in QLD - who is installing the parts for you, and what have they quoted for labour?

I have been going to an Alfa Specialist at Southport on the Gold Coast - they are called Revolution Automotive. And have said it will be a flat 3 hours to do the upper control arms and sway bar links which will be $330 for labour. I am guessing you may find it will take an extra hour if you are getting the lower control arms done as well.

[lmcpaulm]

Hey imcpaulm, you said you had battery problems,what sort of battery problems, i am interested in what brand of battery's Alfa drivers use in their 156's, 12 volt socket, it is quite easy to pull that flip down lid out and check out the wiring on the ciggy socket, i replaced mine with a twin socket from Jaycar that don't have lighters, but fit GPS's and MP3 sockets better and the sockets don't fall out, wiper blade problems, what the normal chattering wipers, i replaced mine with over the counter at Repco blades and they worked a treat and it was one of the easiest jobs i ever did, indicators jamm, no idea, mine are still working ok, maybe spray some silicone spray into the switch for a bit of lubrication, fuel gauge lying, obviously your fuel gauge thinks its in Politics, keep us updated with all your dramas, Colin.

Hi Colin,

- Battery - I had to get the RACQ to come out and recharge my battery twice because it was dead in the morning despite nothing being left on. It turned out the be a dead battery cell and eventually stopped working when it was at the mechanics. I don't remember the brand (it was in italian) but BatteryWorld spent about 30 minutes just trying to get it out and fit theirs in. They said Alfas and Audis are the worst to try and fit batteries.
- 12V socket - I have checked the wiring, it appears fine, it's all neat with those plastic connectors that simply snap together. Haven't worked out what it is yet.
- Wipers - yes mine chattered something terrible, almost skipping across the glass. I spent $200 and 3 brands of wipers before I found the cheapo 1980's style silicone $9 brand from Supercheap fixed the problem.
- Indicators - the indicator moved fine, but the actual lights would jam on to the right or left. It turned out it was actually the electric switch that had to be replaced and was located behind the driver's airbag in the steering wheel.
- Fuel Gauge - I have run out of fuel twice when it says there is still 1/4 of a tank! So it now gets filled up shortly before it gets that low...

However, when the car is operating properly and doesn't have a vendetta against me it is a dream to drive. I'll be sure to let you know of anymore happenings.

[L4OMEO]

Hi Imcpaulm

Thanks for the great feedback and PM. Would also be very interested to know if the car drives any differently once everything's replaced, make sure you post some further feedback once you've had a chance to assess it.

Cheers
Rory

[lmcpaulm]

Would also be very interested to know if the car drives any differently once everything's replaced, make sure you post some further feedback once you've had a chance to assess it.

So the car work was done yesterday... and I picked it up last night - it seemed to be quieter but a little noise here and there. I thought the real test would be after leaving it overnight.

I have taken it for a drive and it seems the problem is STILL there. There is probably a 50% improvement (maybe that's me being optimistic?), but a definite knocking/clunking over bumps under by feet, felt mainly at the heels. The only thing I haven't gotten done is the sway bar itself.

No doubt the knocking will work its way back to how it was before.

I give up - I have now spent $1600 of money I don't have trying to fix it!!  

- Ps the car doesn't appear to drive any differently.

[bix]

Sorry to hear that lmcpaulm. Looking at the thread - so you have replaced the upper and lower wishbones and the sway bar links. Did you also replace the sway bar bushings? The bushings have been known to deteriorate there, however you need a good Alfa mechanic who knows what they are doing as there is a bit of cutting and welding work required to do this - apparently Alfa never offered the bushings as a replacement part; instead requiring alfa owners to replace the entire sway bar with bushings attached.

[lmcpaulm]

Did you also replace the sway bar bushings?

No I didn't 

I spoke to 2 alfa specialists that said it was more likely to be the upper control arms or sway bar links. Appears not.

Anyone know approx how much sway bars are in Aus? And what the labour time would be? if it is another 3 hours to do it then I don't have the cash.... I can't be sinking 2-3k into a car just to work out where a clunking is coming from.

I definitely don't want to be in the same situation at this guy which I posted before! http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/129961-faulty-steering-rack-156-v6.html

[colcol]

If you have replaced the upper and lower control arms, were they genuine or non genuine parts from ebay, THERE is a difference, also the control arm bolts should be relaced as well, the sway bar bushes can be replaced, don't go and buy a complete new sway bar assembly, just replace the bushes, the clamps holding them are spot welded, these can be drilled out, and the bushes can be purchased off ebay or through aftermarket Alfa Romeo spare parts places, these are the things that i would do first, Colin.

[lmcpaulm]

If you have replaced the upper and lower control arms, were they genuine or non genuine parts from ebay, THERE is a difference, also the control arm bolts should be relaced as well, the sway bar bushes can be replaced, don't go and buy a complete new sway bar assembly, just replace the bushes, the clamps holding them are spot welded, these can be drilled out, and the bushes can be purchased off ebay or through aftermarket Alfa Romeo spare parts places, these are the things that i would do first, Colin.

All parts were genuine and I sighted the original alfa tags on them.

Thanks for that.

[colcol]

The control arms were genuine, thats good, but if there is still a rattle, it could be the control arm bolts, as now the ball joints and control arm bushes are nice and tight, the bolts could be loose on the now new control arms, EB spares recommend putting in new control arm bolts, the ebay sellers don't mention it, as for your 12 volt socket, check to see if it has power going into the multipin plug at the back of the socket, Colin.

[bix]

colcol is correct. Just replace the sway bar bushes and not the entire sway bar unit - but get a reputable Alfa mechanic to do it.
As an aside, I think I mentioned in this thread that I replaced my upper and lower wishbones a few weeks ago. After these were replaced, I drove it a handful of kilometres only to hear the dreaded knocking noise! I drove it back to the mechanic who checked it out and advised that the rh upper wishbone needed retightening. He advised that the components can take a little while to "bed-in" and then require further tightening.

[colcol]

Hey Bix, did you replace the control arms bolts?, it would be interesting to get a new and used control arm bolt and put them side by side and measure them to see how much they wear, and if they are worth replaceing or not, EB spares say to replace, but they would as they sell them, Colin.

[bix]

Yes Colin I replaced them as well. They are only an extra couple of dollars extra each, so ideally factor them into the total purchase.

[lmcpaulm]

Yes Colin I replaced them as well. They are only an extra couple of dollars extra each, so ideally factor them into the total purchase.

That's an interesting point... Do you think it would take another 3 hours to swap the bolts over with new ones? I don't plan on spending $330 for labour in swapping the bolts, but if its something that small I may get it done at the next service which is in about a month.

Ps I had a power steering specialist check out my steering and also the anti-roll bar yesterday who said the steering and rack ends were fine (with no noises) and the bushes on the ARB also look fine (which is what my alfa specialist said when they did the upper control arms).

How many bolts are needed for the upper and lower control arms? Is someone able to give me the EB Spares link and indicate how many of each (so I get it right!)? Thanks

[bix]

The upper wishbone has one nut & bolt: http://ebspares.co.uk/PNF/PNF.cfm?id=/alfa_156/top_wishbone_nut_and_bolt/info.cfm&CFID=1347629&CFTOKEN=8f7eeb8996689eff-E6F7D620-155D-210D-9B93947695E218FD&jsessionid=f030aa84007ac1c040425a317586c7166417
The bottom wishone has 4 bolts: http://ebspares.co.uk/PNF/PNF.cfm?id=/alfa_156/Bottom_wishbone_bolt_set/info.cfm&CFID=1347629&CFTOKEN=8f7eeb8996689eff-E6F7D620-155D-210D-9B93947695E218FD&jsessionid=f030aa84007ac1c040425a317586c7166417

I would imagine that they could replace the bolts fairly pain free, but I am no mechanic.
On what basis have the specialists said the ARL bushes are okay? I'm thinking that it would be quite difficult to determine if they are worn based on a visual check.

Cheers,
PB 

[Craig_m67]

Sounds like the front ARB to me (sway bar). The bushes can be hacked off the bar and new ones fitted, although from memory that bodge allows for lateral movement still, there are sintered collars on the bar to stop this movement which end up getting wrecked.  Check the numerous threads on alfa UK forums talking about it.

Most economic (when i did it) was to simply replace the whole unit with bushes as fitted by Alfa. The bar was cheap (£56?)... Cheaper than frigging around replacing bushes that are not designed to be separated from the bar.

From memory the sub frame needs to be lowered to do this, that the potentially expensive labour bit if your mechanic is non alfa.

The knocking is annoying, I did everything (upper, lower, drop links and ARB) in one hit as the majority cost is labour. Made a huge difference. 60K later and i have a small occasionl knock from the LH front over speed humps when cold...  All my bits were OEM so I guess that's just the "Life span".