VW DSG just as bad as a selespeed

[ANG156]

Was reading todays herald sun's cars guide and a letter from a reader spoke of his troubles with his vw polo dsg gearbox from day one of purchase. Apparently it has taken vw a year now to decide to replace the gearbox under warranty (and some of us complain ateco is bad). Anyway it seems all the negative reports about the dsg gearbox are finally coming out. Hope this takes some of the criticism away from the selespeed.

BTW Did you know what DSG stands for? Damn Shit Gearbox. 

[Davidm1600]

Ang you are not wrong.  My dad a couple of years back bought a new Skoda superb it too had that crap gearbox.  Dad is in early 80s but has been driving since he was a kid, and has driven heaps of different cars over the years.  He hated the gearbox that much, that he ended up selling the car after owning it for a year and bought a new Peugot 308.  He's happy now.

If you look on line, ever since they introduced that piece of shite, everyone has been complaining.  I was talking to a mechanic the other day and he mentioned that the DSG system has been replaced by a new and supposedly better system.  For car owners I hope so.

[f1worldchamp]

It's been my experience that most people who don't like the DSG simply don't understand it, including a mates gf who thought it was terrible that the car occasionally rolled back on hills (shock horror). Having driven a number of DSG cars I think they're great, but they are not traditional automatics and require a certain driving style. The worst thing I've ever found is the downchanging when going down steep hills, I assume for engine braking, but all it seems to do is have the engine rev it's tits off. But then that's avoided by changing back up manually. I've driven far more DSG equipped cars than I have the Selespeed, but I can honestly say the DSG is far, far superior gearbox.

[Duk]

It's been my experience that most people who don't like the DSG simply don't understand it, including a mates gf who thought it was terrible that the car occasionally rolled back on hills (shock horror). Having driven a number of DSG cars I think they're great, but they are not traditional automatics and require a certain driving style. The worst thing I've ever found is the downchanging when going down steep hills, I assume for engine braking, but all it seems to do is have the engine rev it's tits off. But then that's avoided by changing back up manually. I've driven far more DSG equipped cars than I have the Selespeed, but I can honestly say the DSG is far, far superior gearbox.

Engine braking behavior is more a function of the engine's characteristics (normally what sort of 'vacuum' the engine pulls and the engine's capacity) than the gear box.

[Darryl]

The only VW self shifting gearbox I've driven is their Shiftmatic ( http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_372.pdf ) in a VW Crafter motorhome. VW use the DSG in their smaller vans but I don't think they have a DSG for a 4 ton vehicle (yet?).

FWIW it was a nice thing to drive - its the same idea as a selespeed and is actually based on the same transmission unit as the manual box used in the same vehicle - just with the self shifting hydraulics etc added.

The camper hire guy said that some customers who were used to/expecting an automatic hated it but he personally liked it. Its certainly a better thing that a torque converter auto in a relatively heavy vehicle like this - I'd asked for a manual vehicle as wasn;t looking fwd to an auto. This thing meant I could drive it effectively on windy/hilly roads etc (I was in tazzie) but leave it to its own devices around towns and on the les "interesting" bits of road.

So, I don't know if the DSG is just as bad as / better / worse than VS's own "selespeed" but I didn't find that to be too bad - though it wasn't going to win any shift speed races - which is where the DSG would win out.

[f1worldchamp]

Actually the Shiftmatic in the Crafter vans is more like the Selespeed than the DSG. Both are essentially manual gearboxes with an automated clutch. The DSG isn't, it bridges the gap between manual and automatic gearboxes.
See the vid from about 0:50.

[Davidm1600]

But that as I was trying to explain Worldchamp, that is precisely why my dad hated the DSG, the car rolling back when it was meant to go forward scared the crap out of him, let alone the drivers of cars behind him. The other thing it would do when on the flat was not actually go, when the accelerator was pressed on (due to a delay) and then the bloody turbo would kick in and launch him, equally scaring the crap out of him.

Not really the sort of stuff an 80 year old bloke really needs when a proper auto would do the trick.

However, as mentioned do a Google and see all sorts of complaints re the DSG, for one thing when things went wrong with them, as they do, they become damned expensive to repair, worse than the costs of a conventional autobox.

[aggie57]

DSG is one of the early generation dual-clutch designs which leads me to comment that later designs, such as the Nissan and Porsche systems are better.  

Can't say I've driven a GTR (has anyone else?) but I've driven a number of PDK equipped 911's, Boxsters and Caymans both in the city and on the open road.  While I still wouldnt have one over a manual they are much better than even the BMW DCT.  It even has auto "creep" built in so take your foot off the brake and the car creeps forward.

[GTV-074]

In Cars Guide earlier this year....

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/buyers-guide/volkwagen_passat_05-08_buyers_guide

Pay attention to the "In the Shop" and "Owner Says" sections.

Not a representative sample by any means but note worthy. I believe Smithy's research for his articles is to speak to
Marque specialists and / or dealer reps.

So if he mentions it there is some substance behind it.

Cheers.

[Darryl]

Actually the Shiftmatic in the Crafter vans is more like the Selespeed than the DSG.

Um yeah - thats what I said

its the same idea as a selespeed and is actually based on the same transmission unit as the manual box used in the same vehicle - just with the self shifting hydraulics etc added.

Don't worry - I know how a DSG works, just haven't driven one.

[f1worldchamp]

But that as I was trying to explain Worldchamp, that is precisely why my dad hated the DSG, the car rolling back when it was meant to go forward scared the crap out of him, let alone the drivers of cars behind him. The other thing it would do when on the flat was not actually go, when the accelerator was pressed on (due to a delay) and then the bloody turbo would kick in and launch him, equally scaring the crap out of him.

Not really the sort of stuff an 80 year old bloke really needs when a proper auto would do the trick.

However, as mentioned do a Google and see all sorts of complaints re the DSG, for one thing when things went wrong with them, as they do, they become damned expensive to repair, worse than the costs of a conventional autobox.

I agree wholeheartedly that it probably wasn't the best thing for your father, my comment was rather that these characteristcs of the DSG are not faults, but just different operating conditions for a different style of gearbox. I have to agree that turbo lag and DSG doesn't sound like a great combo, but I think a lot of DSG owners don't understand that it is not an auto and simply assume it's behaviour to be a fault.

[wetprickles]

Have driven several DSG equipped vehicles and I'm a believer, I can't change gears in a manual as quick or as smooth.Only driven one selespeed [briefly]and although it was O.K not as good as DSG. Namely on take off and shift speeds. Wife has a CVT in her Jazz speaking of oddball gearboxes and we had the magnetic clutch shudder at 70,000km which was rectified at next service. Service crew said dirty gearbox oil was the culprit. CVT is NOT a nice driving experience, give me a DSG anytime. Jazz is very fuel efficient though, never uses more than 6.5L/100km even if you thrash it. Drove it to work for three months in 90 km/h traffic and was getting as low as 4.5L/100km. thats up aroung 60 mpg. Drove a DSG equipped AWD Transporter van last week with the dual turbo 120kw, 400nm 2L 4 cyl diesel and that drove and handled as good as a lot of cars I've driven and actually had some grunt as well. Auto-Blips throttle on downchanges,silky smooth. My main grumble with DSG is the direction the gearstick must be moved to do the changes, push forward to change up to the next gear and pull back to change back a gear .Should be the othe way round. Like the V8 Supercars, Pull back to change up a gear and push forward to change back a gear.Paddle changes are better and a hoot to use. Dual clutch Direct auto shift manual gearboxes ARE the way to go, Bughatti,Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi EVO,not to forget Alfa Guilietta and VW have all licensed the building and use of them so looks like they are here to stay.You can bet there will be some problems with them but hopefully forums like this one will help us enthusiasts keep them in good condition and maintain them where the un-educated will by pass and diss them. Just like our Alfas!

[Darryl]

Have driven several DSG equipped vehicles and I'm a believer, I can't change gears in a manual as quick or as smooth.Only driven one selespeed [briefly]and although it was O.K not as good as DSG. Namely on take off and shift speeds. CVT is NOT a nice driving experience, give me a DSG anytime.

Once again, it depends... A6 3L turbo diesel with CVT = the smoothest, most like being in a jet at takeoff fast "limo" I've ever driven. Brilliant thing - it just sticks the turbodiesel in the middle of its big fat torque curve and delivers perfectly smooth "thrust". Obviously, *not* the transmission of choice in something that "sings" but for a turbodiesel its perfect. Interestingly, it (CVT) is also good in the horribly peaky little Audi A4 5 valve/cylinder thing - gets it off the line at the lights etc very smoothly and quickly - by quickly finding the torque peak - I'd driven the previous manual and it was just tedious - not enough return for the investment in shifting just right, but not enough torque spread to be able to be lazy.... Haven't driven a Jazz to know but maybe it would be similarly unrewarding with something other than a CVT?

It's good that there are such a variety of transmissions around and hopefully the mfgs will use them appropriately - I would never want an A6 turbodiesel manual, or anything "sporting" with nice exhaust and cams with a CVT, but swap the pairings and they are suddenly good things.

Dual clutch Direct auto shift manual gearboxes ARE the way to go, Bughatti,Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi EVO,not to forget Alfa Guilietta and VW have all licensed the building and use of them so looks like they are here to stay.You can bet there will be some problems with them but hopefully forums like this one will help us enthusiasts keep them in good condition and maintain them where the un-educated will by pass and diss them. Just like our Alfas!

Sums it up nicely...