Alfa 90 Differences

[sullo]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum, and wish to purchase an alfa 90. I can,t figure out the differences between a ""cloverleaf"" and a ""super"".
I have been told the super has a better injection system on it, revs 500 higher, and that once you have driven one, you wouldnt drive a standard 90 or cloverleaf.
Can someone confirm this ? - I dunno What to buy. I hear the ''super's '' are rare ,but I want a good thing and would wait.
All help apreciated,
Sullo. 

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Allow me guys.......

Welcome to the forum, and good choice of car!

I've got a couple of Supers, but have only briefly driven the Cloverleaf, as I bought one for parts, and only drove it round the block really.   The Super is a far superior car, and I wouldn't even think of buying a Cloverleaf. 

The most important differences are mechanical.  The Super has lower gearing than the Cloverleaf, something not to be underestimated.  The Cloverleaf was always criticised for having gearing far too high.  I can believe this as even the Super has fairly high gearing.  As an illustration, my standard Super is only just getting into fifth gear after the finish line at Phillip Island, at about 180km/h.  It is fairly good for normal street driving however.

The Super also got stiffer suspension.  Again this is still fairly soft for track work (search around this forum for a while and you'll see a few pics of mine on it's doorhandles), but is actually pretty good for road stuff.  It's very comfortable, and although it rolls a bit, it does hold on really well. and can give you a moderately sporting drive if required.

The Super has the same suspension settings as the 75 V6 I believe, and it also got the better clutch from that car. 

Other than that it's mainly cosmetic, although one important distinction is that the Super dropped the digital dash for the analogue one.  I gather the digital dash is a pain in the a**e.

I haven't heard of any injection/rev changes, but I'm no expert.

There are certainly far less Supers around, as the Cloverleaf gave the car a bad name, so they struggled to sell.   But they were a far better car, and rated by the Aussie media as a better all-round car than the 75 (2.5 V6).

There's a good website here http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7709/alfa90.html with some information and manuals on the 90.

There's also a beautiful Super for sale on ebay at the moment.  It's in NSW and it's not cheap, but I've seen the car and it looks almost like a new car.  Probably one of the best around.  No relation/friend of seller etc......

Good luck mate! Let us all know how your adventure goes.

[Evan Bottcher]

Something's fishy here.  Tell the truth Sheldon... you registered "sullo" as an alias just to ask yourself that question, didn't you???   

[Scott Farquharson]

Yeah, I'm with you Evan - "Dorothy Dixer" of the higest order......Yes, just who is the mysterious "Sullo"....

BTW, I did find the answer both interesting and informative and possibly may have changed my views on 90's somewhat....mission accomplished.....

[nerineandgary]

Hey are you guys being a bit tough on our respected and revered Editor. He wouldn't do that would he?
It did give me (us all) a valuable insight into the 90 though. The attached article was interesting but not very complimentary.
Sullo needs to look at the 'flames' link also. We could have a flamin 90' racing team.
The flame thread has gone cold, what's wrong?

[Evan Bottcher]

My sincere apologies Sullo for hijacking your topic - it's a bit rude really!  Welcome to the forum and congratulations on having such fine taste to consider not only an Alfa Romeo but one of the  best appointed and undervalued models of Alfa produced.  If you're not already I hope you'll consider becoming a member of the Alfa club also.

I hope Sheldon's information is of use - I've looked up my copy of David Wright's Alfa Romeo Downunder.  It lists the details of the Alfa 90 and Alfa 90 Super together, suggesting that the engine outputs were the same:

Bore & Stroke: 88mm x 68.3mm (2492cc)
Induction: Bosch L-JETRONIC fuel injection
Power Output (DIN): 117kW (156 bhp) @ 5600rpm

These details are listed  for the 1985-86 models of 90 and 90 Super, and then repeated for the 1986-87 models with the only difference being the chassis code and body code, and that the engine was for unleaded fuel.  Unusual that the book shows identical power output for unleaded?

Not sure this helps, but it's all I've got...

cheers,
Evan.

[sullo]

Thanks gents for the alfa 90 info.  Sullo IS a real person!

- Glenn Sullivan is my name and I'm pleased to be on such a cool forum. I am a former owner of a 105 series alfa and have driven 33's and 164's and 156's also.I am currently living on the Gold Coast, but am a vico and my family are in Geelong/Melbourne.-I can vouch for Milano motors and Formula Uno as well -Charlie [who's son is unbeatable in formula holden series ].

My current 'cheap toy' is a renault fuego coupe [no offense intended !] It is above average and a good performer not unlike an alfa behind the wheel. I even pinched a 33 coolant bottle and warning system and installed it on the fuego and works wel
I want to get back into an alfa 4 door, and a 75 was an option ,but i like the 90 so much better to look at inside and out.
I have seen the 90 on ebay and it would look good in my garage next to my coupe ,cause it's the same color ! But it's not a super and after Sheldon's info I wouldn't buy a cloverleaf. It's interesting Bertone designed a speed operable frt spoiler on the 90 cause I doubt they exist here.
I would love to join the  AROCA, Love to see the track days etc-  just wanna get my 90 first.
Can I ask -how hard should I look for rust on these cars, ? I always thought the 90 was not the worst for this, especialy not being a hatch. Theres not many alfa's up here in stheast Qld it seems -certainly not many 90's even Adelaide seems to advertise more of 'em. It gets hot up here and Alfa's were never known for good air con units.-I'll have to fix that prob for my 90 I think.
-Anyway calling up about an interstate 90 tomorrow.....know it's a super.........Cheers guys...

go cats!!

Sullo.

[vin sharp]

The most important differences are mechanical in the clucth/transmission as mentioned.
The temperamental twin-plate clucth was changed to a better single-plate.  The original (same as GTV6) gear ratios coupled to a 3.5:1 diff ratio gave the first 90 rather awkwardly tall gearing. This was replaced with the same as 75's with a 4.1: diff, in the Super.  No LSD though. 
The styling was also radically enhanced with the Super..........with a firm but accurate blow just above the left temple..........   

[Scott Farquharson]

Love your work Sullo - Go Cats!

[Sheldon McIntosh]

It's interesting Bertone designed a speed operable frt spoiler on the 90 cause I doubt they exist here.

Not quite sure what you mean there?  Hard to get as spare part?  maybe.  Check out mine in operation in pics attached. BTW this one has been crashed so the shutlines and colour matching is usually a bit better than on this one!

You shouldn't find any rust on a 90, they were galvanised from new.  In the three I've owned I've only found a tiny bit of superficial rust on a quarter panel.  Buying guide here:-  http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7709/buying.html  Suggests checking rear wheelarch and bottom of doors

Air-con is not up to much on the 90.  It might cope with temperature in the early 30s, but good luck with anything over that.

Make sure headlights are in good condition, they're very hard to find, and pretty expensive.  I bought my parts car (with good headlights and briefcase) for half what I was quoted for a pair of headlights!

That is all for now.  Good luck

[Beatle]

May I resurrect this thread?

My questions are many, but to begin with:

1.   Did the various models of 90 run concurrently or consecutively in Oz?  i.e. was the Super an option/upgrade in certain years, or was the Super the new/replacement car?  What are the designations?  Green Clover Leaf, Super......?
2.  What year did the 90 begin sales in Oz?
3.  What year does the Super appear?
4.  What year did they go ULP?  Are all Supers ULP and all non-Supers leaded?
5.  Are the body panels identical across all years or was there a physical change to panels over time (Vin's comment above has me intrigued).
6.   Is the digi dash really that much more a problem than the analogue dash?
7.  What upgrades does a Super get, apart from those mechanical changes already mentioned?  I've noticed driving lights, grille.  Was an alarm fitted (some pics show a small red light on the RH lower dash).  What about interior (apart from guages)?  Factory cruise?  Is the Super better constructed than the earlier model(s)?

Cheers

[dehne]

ok I shall take the lead here
1.yes in 85 they had the "cloverleaf" it was a leaded petrol engine, in 86 they changed the engine to unleaded and the gearbox ratio's some 86mdl have the digital dash as well, and 87 analogue dash
2. sales started in 85
3. pretty sure the badged super was in 87 although 86 was yhe intro of the unleaded engine
4. 85 was the only leaded model, 86 onwards were unleaded to comply with adr
5. all the body panels are the same except for the grills
6. I believe not, I have owned both and it comes down to individual choice, the digital looks way cooler and goes faster
7. the only differences are engine(unleaded) gearbox (restricts top speed) grille (not as good as the leaded version) the loss of the trip computer/km's left/current fuel usage/current average fuel usage/outside temp/stop watch/ave speed, all models had front fog lights if you cannot see them they have covers on, an alarm was after market, cruise control is added, the body construction is the same.

now for my opinion the 85mdl leaded 90's are far better than the unleaded 90's they can go faster, the engines are better, they have the digital dash and the trip computer.

[Beatle]

Thanks Dehne.

So how does one get the leaded '85 model to "go faster" exactly?  I assume you mix-n-match diff and gearboxes?  What would be the best combination for a road car?

Is it only the diff ratio changed, or were there changes to the gear ratios as well?

And now that you can't buy leaded, is it OK to run 95 fuel or should one run 98?

With unleaded fuels, is there still a HP difference between the ULP and leaded engines?

[dehne]

paul, the gearbox in the leaded car allows it to reach a higher top speed, the unleaded car is restriced to 204 if my memory serves correct where as the leaded box allows you to go way beyond that. I also believe that the leaded engine produced more power than the unleaded. I use 95 and 98 in my 90 and have never used extra lubricant in it as they have lube in the fuel.
for a complete package for the road both cars are good the advantage of a super it better accelleration from a standing start, if you have driven both types of 90's for any lenght of time and im not sure how many people have, there is not to much difference, I think your choice comes down to,
1. what dash do i want analoge or digital
2. what grille do i want (can easilly be change though)
3. and do i want to be cool or not (if so go the digital dash)
4. do i want a control unit that has temp/fuel consumption/stop watch/clock/average speed/ ect (then go the 85mdl leaded)
5. better acceleration from standing (go the unleaded)

these are all point if the car is factory, but most things can be changed

[Beatle]

Ha ha,

Thanks Dehne.  So the digi-dash is uber-cool then?  Or whatever the Italian for Uber is?

I was thinking that unless I drove both models back-to-back, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Can anyone steer me to, or post, the two gearing charts?  That geocites link is dead. What would RPM be in both cars at 100kph (in top)?