Leaking Sump 2.5l V6

Fylnn · April 21, 2011, 08:35:37 AM

I have had the engine out of the GTV6 after a few years of slumber. I changed all the gaskets and seals before I put it back in and it has been running for about 6 months. But since it is not registered yet it has not been on the road to date mainly sitting flat on the garage. I pulled it out and parked it in the driveway waiting for the flatbed to take it to the panel beaters to get painted. for the first time probably since the engine went back in it was pointing uphill. After it left noticed nice puddle of oil under the back of the engine. i had noticed a weep around the back of the sump but seems to be much more than that when pointing uphill.

so question for the day is are the sumps on these things any more or less prone to leaking then anything else and is there a trick to sealing them? I had a new gasket, used sealant on both sides, torqued it up to correct tightness.

I have to suck it and see whether it is bad enough to justify either lifting the engine to change it or removing it again.

pep105 · April 21, 2011, 11:34:54 AM

Hey Fylnn,

Just a thought, it's not the rear main seal perhaps ?

Fylnn · April 21, 2011, 02:07:08 PM

I did change the rear seal at the same time. It could be that I grant you. When I get it back I will have stick it in the air nose up, clean the oil off and try to work out where it is coming from.

But just wondering if there was any history to be aware.

vin sharp · April 21, 2011, 10:48:06 PM

??What?

This is a problem? The car is old and Italian. The quantity of oil inside the engine must be equal to or less than that on the outside or underneath the said car, otherwise the balance of the universe is distorted and untold bad things will happen. Clever design engineers have known this for decades. I always keep this in mind when putting an engine together...........

Fylnn · April 29, 2011, 07:50:16 AM

Choderboy,

so you applied sealant to the outside diameter of the rear main seal itself? I might have not done that. Could be a poblem then. Good thing I know how to get the engine out.

What sealant is that?

Fylnn · May 02, 2011, 03:54:07 PM

Cheers Choderboy

Fylnn · June 06, 2011, 09:21:09 PM

OK plot thickens it is all back shiny and painted but once again parked it in the driveway and next thing you know, oil is pooling under the rear of the engine. So remedial action is in the future somewhere it seems. Unless I only drive it down hill from now on.

Can someone refresh me, the V6 has a 2 piece sump, the major part and the flat oil pan on the bottom. I seemed to remember that there was one gasket made of like Neoprene or something and the other might have been paper, I seem to remember. So I am thinking it is the paper one that is leaking. I may have got a bit that fell back inside the sump during installation or something. Always hated paper gaskets.

So am I right, is it a paper gasket? If so has anyone ever come up with a better option or way to seal it?

I suppose other question, it is possible to get the sump off without lifting the engine completely out of the car? Like lift it a bit (doubt if you will get more than an inch) and then slip the sump out.

four90s · June 07, 2011, 10:53:51 AM

Just a quick question. Does this car have the separate clutch master cylinder reservoir or the line running across the back of the engine from the brake master cylinder reservoir.

I only ask 'cause I went to the trouble of taking the engine out of one of my 90s to replace the rear seal only to find that the leak was 90% brake fluid from the line to the clutch m/c and 10% oil from general leakage.
(I was topping up the brake reservoir, as the pressure valve was leaking as well. It is one of the ones mounted on the brake master cyl.)

Might save you some trouble.

Steve

Fylnn · June 08, 2011, 02:10:07 AM

No the car has a pedal box so no hydraulic fluid near the centre. From what I can see the flywheel and all that area is dry, the oil seems to form at the back of the sump. Facing up to ugly story to change a gasket. But I recall it was paper so not surprised it leaked.

Fylnn · June 09, 2011, 12:47:17 PM

It is up near the rear main seal, the back of the sump where it bolts up to the block. if it was the bottom one than happy days easy to fix, but of course it is the most difficult in the hardest to see position. I have been rabbiting on about paper gaskets, but maybe my memory related to the water pump gasket. I simply can't remember what type of gasket was used in the sump to block joint.

Anyway it is rather annoying because it is basically tight as a drum apart from that.

Fylnn · June 09, 2011, 01:24:31 PM

No putting it off for moment. Trying to work up enthusiasm for lifting the engine out again. But before I do that trying to understand why it didn't work the first time and how to make it better the next. I am not planning on lifting the engine 3 times.

So when it comes out want to be dead sure I get the rear main seal and the sump gasket completely leak free.

Fylnn · June 09, 2011, 10:48:16 PM

So what is the secret to applying the sealant? I am probably in the put it on and it should work camp, but it obviously didn't, so must have not got it in the right places.

Fylnn · September 12, 2011, 10:25:22 PM

Chorderboy,

The current plan is that BSCC is having a motorkhana, come and try day thing in 2 weeks on a dirt track on private property. Being a gravel rally car, the idea is to take it out and give it a fang and see just what has to be done to make it work/safe. At present the oil leak is an issue that I can probably live with for the day and after it is all over and the list of improvements is written it is back into the shed for the engine to come out and fix the leak. Cleaning it all up and watching it, it appears that the leak is either rear main or very back of the upper oil pan seal. So you use Permatex black, I put Permnatix blue on it when I assembled it the first time, so what is the difference between black and blue?

jayarr · September 13, 2011, 09:15:48 PM

Thumbs up to using Ultra-black. Did my sump and rear main seal 18 months ago, all good so far. Suggest making sure that all seal surfaces are super clean, particularly as the oil continues to run down the block walls and contaminate the surface. Also around the rear main seal filled the gallery with the rear main seal out, being careful not to entrain air into the bead of sealant, fill it with one long squirt.

When placing the sump in position put a thin bead of ultra-black on block, with the bead between the sump bolt holes and the inside edge of the block. I put in the sump bolts very loosely, waited about 15 mins before torquing them up.

Cheers.

Fylnn · September 13, 2011, 09:21:25 PM

Yes thanks for the info. I will upgrade from ultra blue to ultra black. The advice about putting it in will help. Obviously I did something wrong relating to cleanliness or not beading it into the right place.

Anyway looks like I got a summer project coming up to do an engine lift and tidy a few things along the way.