159 JTD Diesel particulate filter problem

[Robin brown]

Hi guys. Just wondering if anyone else has had problems with 159 diesel particulate filter continually blocking and causing the engine to go into limp mode? I purchaced a 2007 model in 2009 from the Brisbane dealer and since the have had to take it back 4 times for forced regeneration of the filter. The regeneration only lasts for 1,000 - 2,000 km before blocking again. I have tried using only BP ultimate and have taken it on faster driving long runs but it still blocks.

[Evan Bottcher]

We bought a 2006 2.4 JTDm in December, and a week after picking it up we had the engine light and limp mode.  It did clear by itself, but came back again soon after so took it to the main dealer (Maranello Pur Sang was on holiday) and they cleaned the EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation).  Have not had the problem again in ten months of varied driving.

There's lots of opinion on the Alfaowner.com forum about the DPF - some saying you have to drive for 20 minutes at a particular engine temp and constant revs for the management system to perform a regeneration.  Some opinions I read saying that the engine has to be over 2100rpm to regen (which means not 6th gear on the freeway).  We usually do a long run on the freeway anyway every couple of weeks, perhaps that's why we don't hav any trouble?

[Evan Bottcher]

It's obviously a problem for the guys in the UK - I read a lot of people have blanked off the EGR and removed the DPF, apparently it requires an ECU flash to prevent warning lights related to the removals.  Seems a lot of people do this in conjunction with a remap to release more smokey ponies.

[Robin brown]

Thanks Ivan. Just had the EGR valve cleaned and seals replaced by Brisbane dealer - he said the valve had a lot of carbon deposits. Hopefully, as in your case, this may fix the problem. Appreciate your advice. Thanks.

[Polyal]

guys I am looking at a jtdm and was wondering is the PDF a big issue? Can it be removed completely?

Anything else to worry about with this car, its a 2007 model.

[colcol]

If the particulate filter light comes on, then take for a good run along the freeway, so it can regenerate and clean itself, when it is cleaning itself, the engine will vibrate, too much idling and city running causes the Particulate filter to clog up, if the light stays on for too long, then the engine managment system will cause the car to go into limp mode, then its off to the dealer, it can be removed, but then the car wouldn't run, as it is all intoconnected, the cam belts on these last about twice as long as they do on Alfa petrol motors, but they have to be changed, if the belt breaks, then the rockers break, saving it from the dreaded piston to valve contact, but the rollers fall into the sump, meaning the sump has to be removed to fish out all the rollers, as you know, there are 2 motors, early 1.9  4 cylinder and late 2.4  5 cylinder, the late one has 400 newton metres of torque

[gattaca]

I'm new to this forum, so I apologise if I am breaking any rules of etiquette in reviving this old thread, and am happy to be advised of the correct way to handle my query. I came on here because I'm at my wits end, and I'm hoping someone might be able to offer some good advice.

I bought a 2007 Alfa 159 JTDm automatic second hand from a dealer in Melbourne with about 75,000 km on the clock. It ran well during the 3 month warranty period and indeed for a while after that.

Then I got the dreaded 'Have engine checked' light come on and it soon went into limp mode. I read the manual and realised the DPF had probably got clogged up, which was annoying, as I had taken it on freeway runs reasonably often at the speed limit. I had never noticed it do a regen, but maybe I just didn't know what to listen for.

I took it back to the dealer and they did a regen and it ran fine for a while.

Then, as per the original poster, it broke down into limp mode again. I took it back and they checked the EGR valve and found it to be fine, did another regen, and off I went.

A while later, sooner this time, same thing! Lots of sympathetic words from the dealer, a slightly reduced labour bill etc, but no help on how to stop this happening over and over again.

Along the way I got the timing belt and water pump done and also had to get a new alternator shipped from Italy and two glow plugs needed replacing, a total of several thousand dollars, but at least the car was 'fixed' after these repairs and they didn't have to be done over and over. Then it happened a fourth time, once again sooner than the time before. Engine warning light, a period of running okay with just the warning light... then limp mode.

This time the dealer said that their diagnostics were showing that the problem was with the DPF filter. (Der Fred??) I think the diagnostics showed this each time, but this time he admitted that I might have to replace it and that it would cost several thousand dollars. They did another regen, (again I paid for it, as on each occasion), and he said maybe I would be lucky, fingers crossed. At this stage I was sick of all the heartache and expense and decided to take it straight to a used car dealer and trade it in for whatever I could get on another car.

It lasted 10 minutes exactly and bang, the light came on again. When I got to the used car dealership and mentioned the Alfa as a trade in the dealer immediately ummed and ahhed and asked whether it had any mechanical faults. He said they couldn't offer much on Italian cars because of all the ones returned under statutory warranty (so within 3 months.) I couldn't even show him the Alfa to value because the warning light was on.

I'm pretty devastated. I bough the car for about $22,500, have spent over $5k on repairs and it is currently unsaleable due to a problem which may or may not be fixed by spending another X thousand dollars to replace the DPF.

Apart from wanting any advice you might have, my specific questions are these.

1. Is there anyone in Victoria that anyone knows of, who can and will do what many Brits do, and take off that infernal DPF? They'd also have to know what to do re the EGR valve. I'd pay them for it of course, and also be eternally grateful. I know it is illegal and would render the car technically unroadworthy, but at this stage I honestly just don't care any more. If I could get a 'backyarder' to do it I'd just keep the car and if I ever did want to sell it I could always pay them to put the DPF back on.

2.  If I can find some someone in Victoria to do it for me, how hard is it to find someone who can do the computer 'flash' that reconfigures the CPU and stops the warning lights coming on, etc? Is it something a mechanic can do, or does it have to be an Alfa dealer who has the right program? Would any Alfa dealer be willing to reprogram the ECU if someone else had already done the 'dirty work', or would I fall at the last hurdle?

I've never heard of anyone removing the anti polution gear that causes all these problems here in Australia, yet they do it all the time overseas. Surely some Aussies must be doing it on the sly?

Anyway, sorry for the long, sad story, but at the moment I feel like a person feels who has just been to the supermarket and spent $28,000 to buy a lemon. Not good! :-(
Thanks in advance...

[Steve S]

It is possible you need a new DPF, it happens. One thing to note with these vehicles is Alfa's recommendation to use an ACEA B4 engine oil. Generally speaking, B4 oils should be avoided if you have a DPF as it can cause them to block. I would use a ACEA C3 engine oil if I had one.

One thought, if they can flash the ECU to remove the warning lamps when the DPF is removed, they should be able to do the same with the DPF still attached.

[Nate Dog]

I'll add my 2 cents.
I keep reading suggestions that you all go for long drives on the highway. This is correct in and of itself, but missing one vital piece.
Nasty part follows, and this is what gets people in trouble.
You need to keep it at 3500 rpm (very very high in diesel rev range terms) (roughly 3rd gear at 110kmh/120kmh depending on gearbox) for at least 15 minutes before the dpf cleansing process starts. This then raises the exhaust temps by a few hundred degrees and burns away all the particulate matter. Keep it running at this silly high rev range for another 10 minutes, (try not to have anyone you like behind you, i can only assume it gets very very nasty back there). Please note, this is straight from the Mazda advisory website.
That's how you sort out the Diesel Particulate Filter. Do that every 1000/2000 kms and try not to run at 80kmh at 1300rpm (to show the world how fuel efficiently you can drive) for long periods of time, and you'll never have an issue.

[Nate Dog]

Last addendum,
The only oil i could use to service my Mazda 6 (diesel) was the one sold at Mazda, it was the only oil sold in Australia that had the rating that approved its use with a dpf. In europe there were other brands that had the same rating on it but none of them available here.
The mazda oil was $75. Extremely reasonable in my eyes. Im sure you could use it in your diesel engine and would get great results. Lastly, diesels love an oil change. Every 5000kms or more often if you could be arsed.

[colcol]

The JTD, i am told has a sensor in the oil system, that advises you if the oil is dirty and needs changing, will give you a warning light, and then if not changed, will go into limp mode, Colin.

[Steve S]

Last addendum,
The only oil i could use to service my Mazda 6 (diesel) was the one sold at Mazda, it was the only oil sold in Australia that had the rating that approved its use with a dpf. In europe there were other brands that had the same rating on it but none of them available here.
The mazda oil was $75. Extremely reasonable in my eyes. Im sure you could use it in your diesel engine and would get great results. Lastly, diesels love an oil change. Every 5000kms or more often if you could be arsed.

Mazda 6 diesels take an ACEA C1 5w30 lube. I can see it may seem logical to use this in another diesel with a DPF. Unfortunately it's not that simple. C1, C2 ,C3 ,C4 are all independent Low SAPS or "DPF" specifications. You shouldn't just use any one, especially when the original spec is none of the above.

[Nate Dog]

Steve

I won't argue with you because i can't say for sure,
But,
They'r both,
Common rail, direct injection, turbo charged, 4 cyl diesel engines, sporting a dpf. Would like to hear from modern diesel mechanic but, OK, i'll hold off passing judgement for now.

[Nikola78]

I'll add my 2 cents.
I keep reading suggestions that you all go for long drives on the highway. This is correct in and of itself, but missing one vital piece.
Nasty part follows, and this is what gets people in trouble.
You need to keep it at 3500 rpm (very very high in diesel rev range terms) (roughly 3rd gear at 110kmh/120kmh depending on gearbox) for at least 15 minutes before the dpf cleansing process starts. This then raises the exhaust temps by a few hundred degrees and burns away all the particulate matter. Keep it running at this silly high rev range for another 10 minutes, (try not to have anyone you like behind you, i can only assume it gets very very nasty back there). Please note, this is straight from the Mazda advisory website.
That's how you sort out the Diesel Particulate Filter. Do that every 1000/2000 kms and try not to run at 80kmh at 1300rpm (to show the world how fuel efficiently you can drive) for long periods of time, and you'll never have an issue.

Did you ever had Alfa 159 diesel or youre just guessing?

[Craig_m67]

I'll add my 2 cents.
I keep reading suggestions that you all go for long drives on the highway. This is correct in and of itself, but missing one vital piece.
Nasty part follows, and this is what gets people in trouble.
You need to keep it at 3500 rpm (very very high in diesel rev range terms) (roughly 3rd gear at 110kmh/120kmh depending on gearbox) for at least 15 minutes before the dpf cleansing process starts. This then raises the exhaust temps by a few hundred degrees and burns away all the particulate matter. Keep it running at this silly high rev range for another 10 minutes, (try not to have anyone you like behind you, i can only assume it gets very very nasty back there). Please note, this is straight from the Mazda advisory website.
That's how you sort out the Diesel Particulate Filter. Do that every 1000/2000 kms and try not to run at 80kmh at 1300rpm (to show the world how fuel efficiently you can drive) for long periods of time, and you'll never have an issue.

Did you ever had Alfa 159 diesel or youre just guessing?

Are you able to refute and add anything constructive ?
I have also read that the method described can force a regen and or clean the DPF.
You can also force a regen via software control (via CANBUS)

Personally I'd just remove the damn thing, it's not needed for anything other than emissions control.
I have a JTD without DPF, it's a (occasionally smoky) dream