Sud mods

[Southern75]

Martin ,,,

You need to come around and look at mine ...

nothing wrong with a sud ... just ask Paul

Franco gives some good advice btw

[116gtv]

Gents,

Regarding motors:

Are you all running a carbed 1.7 now?

What are the differences, let's say in lap times, between a 1.5 twin carb, and the 1.7- anyone care to take a stab? Reason for asking is that I'm not sure if 1.7s are easy to find these days and if it's worth hanging out for one...

Also, Is there a difference between an early 1.5 and a late super 1.5?

Cheers

Martin

[Sportscar Nut]

Martin

Can't comment on track times as have only done 2 in the Sud over the years but the 1.7 twin carb is the best boxer motor (IMO of course!). Have driven all 1.5 and 1.7 boxer engines and the 1.7 8 V twin carb is easily my favourite - raw & plenty of torque. The injection motors are fine (again IMO) but lack the rawness of the carb motors but you will find many claim the 1.5 twin carb is also the best motor (Colin??).

The standard 1.5 twin carbs produced 83 hp ATW in Euro spec but can get 105 hp ATW's in a standard 1.7 (with a few small mod's) so lap times should be significantly improved. The biggest drawback to the 1.7 8 valve motor is that factory over size pistons are very difficult to find but 1.5 are easily obtainable.

Not sure on the early 1.5 versus late super 1.5's but thought from memory both were 83 hp ATW's engines. Beauty of the 1.7 carby motor is that it is a simple 'bolt in' job although I did have to re-inforce my lower control arms and inner wheel arches due to the increased torque steer.

Good luck
Paul

[116gtv]

thanks Paul - how can i recognize a 1.7 motor over a 1.5 btw???

[Sportscar Nut]

Martin

I think you can carbie the 1.7 IE motors to 'improve' but will still need the 40 mm webbers which are not easy to find. Not many 33 twin carb 1.7's sold in Aust (100 odd??) as the 1.7 IE replaced in late 87. Around half the cars sold here had hydraulic lifters so no cam covers and hence are easily identifiable. Should not be hard to source engine numbers to be sure engine is a 1.7 for the non hydraulic lifter motors.

Paul

[colcol]

The 33 twin carbs had 95 horse power for the GCL, the TI had 105 horse power, the 1.7 twin carby had buckets more torque and was nicer as it would pull up hills better, however it made you lazy as rather than anticipate every thing and change down a gear or two, you just put your foot down and off you went and also a 1.7 would put you into the under 2 litre class, rather than under 1.6 litre class, in the old days anyway, Colin.

[colcol]

And to identify the 1.7 block, if i remember rightly at the top it has 1730 cast into the block, so the 1700 is actually 1730cc, the cylinder heads on the first 200 or so 1700, had solid lifters, just like the 1500, because Alfa had old stock to get rid of and the new hydraulic heads were not quite ready for production, the hydraulic heads don't have a 4 bolt tappet cover, the camshaft housings are sealed, Colin.

[Ray Pignataro]

on the top of the block it had 87 if it was a 1.7 and 84 if it was 1.5

[L4OMEO]

so the 1700 is actually 1730cc

The 1.7 was actually 1712cc in either 8 or 16V form wasn't it?

[116gtv]

Thanks guys.

Forgot about the cc classes, good point Colin. Think they still exist, in supersprinting anyway..

Well if anyone hears of a good 1.5 or  1.7 motor, I'm interested!

[colcol]

And if its under 1.5 litre then you will have to use a 1.5, but if its up to 1.6 litre you might be able to mix and match blocks and cranks, 1.7 long stroke crank to give you a lot of torque with a 84 mm bore, a 1.5 short stroke crank with a 87 mm bore will give you a real revver, all depends how deep you pockets are, Colin.

[Fetta GTV]

Some progress shots of my Sprint
Front end has new rack boots and shock boots, front springs as Franks sugestions, still need to do rear
How is yours coming along Martin

[116gtv]

This is looking really good, fills the guards well. So tyres are 195/60/14s?

I'm waiting on front pads right now. Baffled sump and hydraulic handbrake are done. 

[Frank Musco]

Gents,

Regarding motors:

Are you all running a carbed 1.7 now?

What are the differences, let's say in lap times, between a 1.5 twin carb, and the 1.7- anyone care to take a stab? Reason for asking is that I'm not sure if 1.7s are easy to find these days and if it's worth hanging out for one...

Also, Is there a difference between an early 1.5 and a late super 1.5?

Cheers

Martin

Martin

A few years ago my brother Joe fitted his 1986 Sprint with an unmodified 1700 8 valve hydraulic lifter engine, with twin 40 idf's. Before fitting we ran identical cars fitted with unmodified 1.5 ti engines and our lap times were identical. When the 1700 went in, we found that Joe's lap times were generally three seconds faster than mine, with the exception of hillclimbs. So the 1700 is easily faster straight out of the box and YES it is worth waiting for one to come along. Having said that I'm still running a highly modified 1500 simply because its been super reliable and bloody fast.

I will eventually run the 1700 8v solid lifter engine with 40 idf's, although I'm not recommending this for racing because there really is no comparison to the 16v engine, this is the engine to use for racing. So when it comes down to dollars to fun ratio, the 1500ti is a real winner, then if you have some extra funds go the 1700 8v on carbs, then if you like the way the car drives and you have heaps of spare funds, build a 16v RACE engine/car. The 1700 on carbs conversion is overall an easy way to get more power and make a sprint faster, simply because it bolts straight in, a couple of hoses and wires and away you go, there are no fuel injection complexities.

The availability of all boxer engines is in favour of the 1500 and the most difficult to find is the 1700 8v solid lifter with 40 idf's. Availability is not a concern, yet, and a well prepared boxer engine with all the hang-ons sorted, takes a very long time to wear out, so you wont be constantly looking for a lifter or piston or a crankshaft or cracking bores and so on like my 383 chev I used to track.

Yes, the differences between the 1500ti 105hp and the earlier 1500 is 38 to 40mm inlet valves, camshaft timing and valve lift, and compression ratio. So if you stick with 1500 engines it is worth getting a 105hp engine. When Joe and I began sprinting we found 1 second difference between the 105hp engine and the normal twin carb, and the single carbed engine was another second slower.

Fetta GTV
Looks great!

[Fetta GTV]

This is looking really good, fills the guards well. So tyres are 195/60/14s?

I'm waiting on front pads right now. Baffled sump and hydraulic handbrake are done. 

Yes 195/60/14s
You dont want to swap these wheels for an Alfetta GTV exhaust system by any chance?