Battery

[Coron]

Hello all,
i was working on my lighting system the other day, i left my lights on and ran my battery flat.... (yes i know that's my first problem)
so i got a jump from my fathers 2008 Suzuki swift, when i went to attach the connections onto my battery in my 71 GTV i discovered the battery is a massive 520 CCA, needless to say the alfa battery took a while to charge but the swift got it moving again.

My question is why would a small engine (1750) require 520 CCA.
When i was doing an engine conversion on my Gemini it went from 140 CCA standard to 250 CCA to handle the torque of the new G200w engine (365 nm from a 4 cyl) also my friends LS1 statesman uses a 660 CCA, the alfa battery could start the LS1!!!!!

is the 520 CCA battery standard for my s2 1750 GTV?

Thanks Guys

Harry

[colcol]

The 550 C.C.A. is a bit over the top, however, a bit more battery power never goes astray, my 33 has 450 C.C.A., but it has Aircon, 3 thermo fans and power windows, i would have thought that 350 - 400 C.C.A. about on the money for your car, have a look at some battery websites, C.C.A. = cold cranking amps, a test they do on the battery when its cold, to determine rating, forget all that rubbish about heavy duty and extra heavy duty, go on C.C.A., Colin.

[1750GTV]

The battery in my car produces 550CCA - never had any problems starting
I guess that because these are high compression engines they may need a bit of cranking to start, particularly in Winter. For me though, it probably is a bit over the top considering that it never gets real cold up here on the Sunshine Coast.
As Colin suggested, ~400CCA should be enough, but you can never have enough amps, especially on a cold morning.
Chris

[colcol]

You really only need a low capacity battery if you are a bit scint or you are trying to save a bit of weight on a race car or maybe you have limited apace for battery instilation, Colin.

[Polyal]

While on the topic of batteries, is it common to move it to the boot? Free up space in the front and move a little weight over the back?

[Coron]

Hello all
I still feel 400 CCA is far too much for a 1.8 or 2.0 4 cylinder.
when i had the flat battery i tested the amps, they were sitting at 295 and there was no response from the starter, usually when a battery is dying the starter will click as the solenoid tries to throw the gear into mesh with the flywheel but not having enough power to turn the flywheel thats all it does, make noise.

with my 1750 GTV there is no clicking, no sound at all which leads me to believe the starter needs 12v and a minimum of 350 ish CCA to turn the engine over and this is a big problem for me, one of the reasons i don't own a new car is because of reliability, with new technology i need a workshop with $50,000 spent on computers to even consider opening the bonnet, plus the fact that most factory ECUs wont work under 12v.

with the series 2 GTVs is there a starter relay or is the starter motor switched by the ignition barrel alone?
are there any aftermarket or reduction starters that will bolt up to and turnover these quite small engines at reasonable CCAs?

ps, Polyal, yes it is common to put a battery inside your boot or even in the cab, for a race car.
from my understanding yes you can on the road but you will need a sealed battery box that is vented to atmosphere as batteries produce hydrogen and believe me you dont want to get into the car in the morning, go to light a smoke and....... to say the least BOOM!!!

Thanks in advance guys, any info or advise on the CCA issue would be much appreciated

Harry

[colcol]

You need to charge the battery up and if it is an unsealed one do a gravity check on the acid with a hydrometer, then if all the cells charge up the same, thats good, then start the car and run it and check the gravity after that, to make sure that under load its not dropping a cell, a 200c.c.a. should be able to kick over the starter motor, its just that the 400 c.c.a. battery will do it twice as long, Colin.

[Colin Byrne]

a 200c.c.a. should be able to kick over the starter motor, its just that the 400 c.c.a. battery will do it twice as long

This isn't entirely correct as CCA (cold cranking amps) is rating of how much current the battery can produce.  if your talking about current of a period of time then your talking charge, and that is generally rated in Amp Hours.

To answer your question Coron, no there was never any starter motor relays in any 105's, as far as i know the only relays in the these cars where for the horn and the rear demister in the 2L's.  There is much benefit to be gained from adding a relay into the starter circuit.

A 520 CCA is a big battery for one of these cars, but there's no real down side to running it.

I ran a small dry cell Odyssey battery in the race car, even with a high compression motor 260CCA is plenty.  Most starter motor issues in these cars are due to poor power connections and sorry looking power leads from the battery to the starter and ground leads from the engine to the chassis.

There are a few reduction gear starters available, but they are pretty pricey.

[pancho]

Colin, how much power does your battery drop from the boot to the starter ?

My old Oddessy gave up the ghost as I didnt use it in 5 years So I am looking at a new smaller unit once I get the car ready. I run a sealed Optima Yellow top in the GTI and it starts like a deamon regardless of the weather or whether it's been running the radio for hours.

[1750GTV]

To answer your question Coron, no there was never any starter motor relays in any 105's, as far as i know the only relays in the these cars where for the horn and the rear demister in the 2L's.  There is much benefit to be gained from adding a relay into the starter circuit.

I was always under the impression that one of the roles of the solenoid was to act as a relay in the starter circuit.

Also, it is well worth fitting relays to the lighting circuits to protect the column switch from current surges, sparking, pitting and finally failure.

And as to modern car reliability - Harry you are right. One of my other cars is quite modern and very electronic. Quite recently the 'Alternator Undervoltage - Visit Workshop' warning light lit up along with a dynamic voltage display. I took the car to my mechanic who checked the alternator/regulator (nearly dead) and battery (10V under load with a predicted CCA of only 125). Replaced the altenator and VR, charged and checked the battery and I was on my way. If the computer system had not been monitoring the voltage/charging circuit, my battery would have discharged to the point where the electronics would have ceased to function and I'd have been stranded. With all of the warning and monitoring systems in today's cars, I often feel as though I'm in Apollo 13 waiting for something to blow up. Probably wouldn't happen with my old 105.
Chris

[pancho]

While a little off topic, today people live a little/lot further out of town or where they work, there is more congestion on the roads and more and more cars all the time. Our old cars just weren't made for these urban environments and situations with most not having air con or other mod cons. I would perhaps drive the 105 to work once a week as a treat but everyday in traffic - give me my automatic air conditioned boring Mazda company car. Or am I getting too old? BA HA HA!

[Colin Byrne]

Colin, how much power does your battery drop from the boot to the starter ?

The battery is in the back seat not the boot, but the voltage drop is negligible.

I was always under the impression that one of the roles of the solenoid was to act as a relay in the starter circuit.

This is true however the solenoid itself is so large it draws a reasonable amount of current to engage, so adding a relay won't make the starter spin faster but it should help throw the pinion into the starter gear with a bit more force and it will give the wiring and the switch gear on the ignition barrel a break.

[colcol]

My 33 from when it was new, would not start due to the being a voltage drop at the starter motor, so like most Alfa owners of that period, i put in a relay for the starter solenoid, power in for the relay straight off the battery lead, starting problems solved, it gets over the voltage drop from the power going from your fuse box to starter switch to starter motor, easiest fix i ever did, Colin.

[1750GTV]

My 33 from when it was new, would not start due to the being a voltage drop at the starter motor ....

I just put in a monster battery

Chris