Motor conversion

[gtv6sv]

OK guys I am just curious, is it hard and/or costly do install a motor, lets say a GTA 3.2 or 164 Q motor into a GTV6?
Seen a few done so im hoping its not too difficult:)

[aggie57]

A 12 valve 164 engine (164 / 164Q) is pretty straightforward. A 24-valve conversion (166 / GTA etc) less so.

[gtv6sv]

Well I'm a very keen person to learn and seek advice to know how to install the engine:) Ok so I understand the heads will obviously different between 164Q 12V engine and a GTA 24V motor, but how the engine mount positions on both types of engines? Are they similar due to both coming from FWD or are they completely different? Also how would you go about the engine mounts? Would I need to get custom ones made or are there already ones out there? sorry for all the questions haha:p

[Storm_X]

Basicly with Alfas everything need to be custom made. You can fit anything into your Alfa,like choder said it come down to level of mechanical competency, how how much money do you have.

[Victor Lee]

Engine mounts are the least of your problems.  You need -
ECU + coil packs
New Extractors
Modify the sump for north south orientation
Modified Plennum + New Air Intake (depending on what comes with 24v you've got)

There are also differences between a 3.0t 24v and a 3.2lt GTA 24v.  We know!  We replaced the existing 3.0lt 24v with a new 3.2lt GTV 24v!

[scott.venables]

164 24v, not so bad as it shares the 12v type oil pump and the RWD sump bolts on without fouling the oil pump pickup.  However, 156, 147, 166, GT, etc 2.5, 3.0 and 3.2 engines all have a chain drive oil pump with the pick up in a different position so the sump doesn't clear.  Also, I believe the later engines have the crank angle sensor at the back of the engine looking at the flywheel which is a bit awkward because you need to use the RWD flywheel.

There is some discussion and pictures of the oil pump pick up and sump in the redalfaracing (Greg Wyatt) rally car thread.

Scott

[aggie57]

By way of contrast a 12v 3.0 is a pretty straightforward process. You pull out the 2.5, strip everything off the block and heads including sump, intake, starter, flywheel, and fuel system.  Swap the distributor drive and water pump off the 2.5 onto the 3.0 (you need to remove the right hand head to do the dizy but that's easy).  Bolt everything from the 2.5 onto the 3.0, have the 2.5 flywheel and front pulley balanced to match the 3.0, insert a 4mm spacer between the crank and the flywheel and chuck it in the car.

Then bolt up the 2.5 wiring and off you go. Oh, don't forget to 'adjust' the rear engine mount, starter mount, flywheel cover plate and a few sump bolt holes and the gasket.

Could have forgotten something seeing its 14 years since I did the job. 

Or pay Hugh to do it, sit back and watch Senna.....💺😊

[dehne]

try talking to milano spares as the do some mods to put later engines into earlier cars, thats if they are still in business

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Aggie's advice in both his posts is pretty spot on (although I don't recall having to remove a head).  A 12V swap is reasonably straight forward, I managed one on my own (but with the kind loan of Aggie's engine stand), and it was the first engine swap I'd done.  It took me about a week of research beforehand, about $1000 in tools and parts, and about 3 months to complete (it was during winter).

Even with that, I've seen grown Alfa mechanics have teething issues with a 12V transplant, and hearing the stories of 24V transplants.....   You would need a very good workshop, and an extremely competent good friend to do it yourself.

Have a good read through these threads...

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine-management/26315-vems-install-my-verde.html
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/milano-75-1987-1989/27358-roxanne-budget-milano-75-track-car-39.html#post307503

...and have another think about it.  As I said, I managed to do a 12V, and I'm not a very competent mechanic, but I was able to get good advice and borrow special tools along the way.

But, if you can afford a good 24v engine, maybe you can afford to pay $5k to get someone to install it.  Assuming anyone would do it for that price....

And IMHO opinion, a 3.0 12V is all you'd ever need in a GTV6.  On the road at least.

[aggie57]

The right hand head had to come off on mine because the ratio between the 2.5 dizy drive and the idler on the front of the head (on the 3.0 engine) was different. It was a very early 3.0 so maybe they changed it later.

And yes, agree that a 12v 3.0 is perfectly adequate for a road car. Add some of Vin's extractors and you're away....

But if you've tried a 24v in a road car .... Who was it that started that Alfa 911 thread?!

[gtv6sv]

Thanks everyone for their advice!
Especially Aggie thanks heaps!
Hmm after reading all this info I am kind of trying to decide to either use a 164 12V (if I can a Q motor), or a 24V 164 motor, seems it fits in easier than the later model cars and sounds like a lot of work to do the later model engines.
Although I do like a challenge and the GTA motor still is a goal for me;)
However this is a future project, just wanting to get advice for now, look around and see what is available and try learn a few mechanical things myself.
I am very well acquainted with milano spares, been going there since I got into alfas, yes they are still in business and will be giving him a visit shortly to discuss this topic:)
I do plan to try find a GTV6 in the near future as I've been dying to have one since I first saw one close up!
As I currently own a 164 Q I am quite impressed with its performance and beautiful engine note so if I had to use one of these with a few mods would be a very good road performer...may look into building one for twin turbo charging;) buts thats for another idea haha!
I do plan to put a few grand into the car as I want the conversion done properly without any glitches( hopefully none!), however I do want to learn to do things myself on the mechanical side, I do have family who worked with alfas for years so hopefully they can give some good advice.
Thanks again for everyones help and valuable advice!

[gtv6sv]

Aggie and Sheldon, how was your experiences with doing these conversions?
Did you encounter very troublesome problems along the way or did you have relatively free-flowing success with the engines?
I guess, research, time, patience and money will get you a good job!
Also Aggie, do you the details of Hugh? 

[gtv6sv]

Thanks Choderboy! Oh so hes located in melbourne which works well!
in people's opinion tho who would be better to go to talk about this, Maranello Pursang or Monza Motors? Or try get the best advice from both?

[gtv6sv]

I was just reading on another alfa forum, check this out, 24V V6 into a GTV6:

http://www.alfagtv6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1088

here's his car on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dVOaPf27vM&feature=related

[gtv6sv]

Think answers my question on who to see!
Although I wonder why the engine was smoking haha!