Smoking 156 JTS

[Sharpo]

G'day guys,

New to this site  but I'm hoping to find a few answers for the problems I've been having with my 2006 156 JTS Selespeed - which I've owned since June 2011.

Back in November i had to get the fuel injector replaced on the fourth cylinder due to a motor system control failure and the car running horribly. The work was carried out by Compact Repair Centre in Mona Vale (supposed alfa specialist), NSW. When I got the car back it puffed smoke every now and then - something it never did beforehand.

About a month ago I had the engine oil flushed and replaced at the same joint with a new filter as part of its 6month service. When I got the car back it was idling like a tractor and smoking really bad. So bad it would fill the street with smoke. There was also a horrible noise on start up that happened twice and hasnt happened since (ive only done 350km sonce the service).

When I took it back to talk it out with CRC I was told that it should clear and that if it doesn't it means the rings are wearing out. That's fine but the engine never smoked like it does now before CRC touched it. And just recently the smoke - which is lightly white/grey and comes and goes but especially bad on changing down during engine braking - has developed a very pungent smell. A smell that's so strong it tickles your nostrils in a bad way. It does use a little more oil than I'm used to but then I've never owned an Alfa before.

I have no idea if the thing has an engine that's about to shit itself or if it needs a tune or something.

What I can tell you - from the mechanic - is that the top-end of the motor is slightly louder than usual, indicating a possibly worn variator. Also, the cams, belts, variator, valves etc were all replaced at 60 odd thousand k's by a previous owner. That previous owner had also had the big bearings replaced shortly afterwards. And I've had two or three motor control system failures with the same warnings from the oxy sensors saying readings were above and below threshold levels or something or rather (these were cleared by CRC and I was told to not really worry about them).

Right now the car has 89,000 k's on the clock and doesn't really feel like its accelerating as good as it did when I brought it with just 83,000km on the odo.

Any help or insight would be much appreciated!

[dehne]

well first thing i would prob do is find another alfa guy to check it out, a second opinion is prob what you need, maybe the oil they used was way to thin or something, I hate when someone does some work on your car and you get it back and it worse than ever,

[joestram]

If the car is idling poorly and having issues with accel then it could be a vacuum leak.

Check the engine bay for any hoses that look disconnected or cracked.

[Sharpo]

Thanks guys yea the engine ran as per normal when I picked it from the mechanic after the service. It was literally the following day that the noise on start up - like a bolt had gone through the motor - and the smoke developed, both dissappeared after time. But I did have the car towed back to CRC straight away. Once the car was back at CRC for whatever reason we couldn't get the noise to happen again and the smoke wasn't nearly as bad when the mechanic inspected the car.

His argument was that they did nothing but change the oil and filter - which I can't argue with. But it still doesn't explain why I get it back from them on two occasions and it's running worse.

The oil CRC used was a high grade 10w60 from Germany or something, and it's what he's used on other Alfas.

I will send a link to a video on YouTube of the noise the car made the day after the service. Btw it was an injector that was replaced, not the coil - all the coils were tested and passed. The computer onboard also pointed at the fourth cylinder injector.

I will definitely not be going back to CRC.

The smoke smelt like pungent gas, it may well have been an oil smell but it was too strong and hot smelling for burning oil in my opinion.

Thanks for the interest.

[wankski]

i was typing something, but then i re-read what you wrote...

replaced cams, but also VALVES and then big end bearings with the cam belt @ 60k... sorry but that reads to me like the engine suffered cam belt failure at that point, and 30k later its falling apart...

no reason to replace valves unless they collided with pistons.

the other stuff either sounds like lambda failure or it could be a faulty MAF... u may need to unplug the MAF and see is the hesitancy and over fueling issues are resolved...

the noise, if it sounded like a diesel, was likely a variator bereft of oil due to the flush and it went away when refilled (its operated by oil pressure!)...

[Sharpo]

Forgot to mention that the engine looks as new and that the car isn't using any water. But I suspect the oil usage to be a litte higher than normal.

The smell, coming out of the exhaust with a whitish grey smoke, is only really only a newish thing that developed two or so weeks after the service and I hardly ever drive the car. In fact I have recently been away for three weeks so took the car for long drive yesterday and it didn't go away, nor did the random puffing of smoke that seemed to always exhaust on hard acceleration or when you have backed off, and sometimes coming to a stop at the lights.

Cheers

Wankski: I'll recheck the records and see what it says. I have a bad feeling the family I brought it off has lied to me!

[wankski]

ok... i'll retype what i was going to say before...

once upon a time i briefly 'owned' a jts 156... i test drove it all good. on the day i was to pick it up, it was billowing smoke, it was fairly grey, not real heavy but not white...

i dabbed my tissue into the exhaust which was pooling... i found... no doubt about it .... oil. same as wiping a dipstick on a tissue.

my diagnosis then was blown rings. endemic issue with the JTS. that particular engine and all fiat engines were dead to me at that point.

i dunno if that's the issue you have, but if you feel you're down on power a HG check (quick and easy) and a compression/leak down test will tell u all.

so far it looks like oil, so maybe thru rings or valves, esp if they were not properly match to their seats when the head was rebuilt...

good luck... take it to the trusty specialists/dealers listed here! I've had a great experience w/ LD doncaster. great workshop that know their shiz and follow instructions for a very good price.

i normally do my own work where i can, but they did my q2 install and were much cheaper than independent specialists in my area.

good luck.

[colcol]

Take it somewhere else that has the computer diagnostic tool, the Alfa examiner, when the JTS injector is replaced, the computer has to be reset and told there is a new injector and a new part number has to be programed into the computer with all its new values otherwise it won't work properly, the JTS injector actually has a pump built into it, thats where you get the high pressure part of the JET THRUST, have a compression test done on the car to see if there are any problems with the rings or valves, and have the valve cover removed to see if there are any problems with the cams, ie a lobe knocked off or they are just worn, could be because of a flushing oil put thru or the old oil being contaminated, due to it not being changed, Colin.

[wankski]

eh? programming injectors? part number put into the computer? pump built into the injector?

colin, did you get into the spirits again??

they are solenoid injectors just like any other ones, (new technology uses piezoelectric) but are inserted for fitment into the head.

they look like this:


they do not have integrated pumps, way too small for that, but they do run boosted pressure from a mechanical pump located in the head that runs off the camshaft. this boosts the fuel pressure up to 2000psi...

apart from the high pressure, and special fitment, it's an injector like any other solenoid type...

[wankski]

"I want a doctor to take your picture ... So I can look at you from inside as well..."

[colcol]

Told by Alfa Specialist that you cannot just replace the injector, otherwise the computer won't reconize it, this is not only Alfa Romeo's, he was telling me that even direct injection diesel utes have to be reprogramed, i suppose its to stop backyarders from fiddling with it, he also showed me a direct injection injector, and said it had a built in pump, whether this is true or not, i don't know, the injectors on the JTS are different to twin sparks, Colin.

[wankski]

yes, i have posted the jts specifc injector above. that is a direct injection injector for the jts specifically (2.0 fiat)

the TS injector is a normal manifold type, as so:



the above information i stated is accurate. the high pressure pump is cam driven

this is what the JTS fuel system looks like: (similar - this is sidi)

[colcol]

You will need to go to an Alfa Romeo Specialist in N.S.W., i am a Victorian, and only know the dealers in Melbourne, the JTS fuel injectors are higher pressure than the twin spark, thats why some of the fuel finds its way past the rings and contaminates the oil, and if it is not burnt of as in a freeway drive, and or the oil isn't changed often enough, the oil instead of being oil is petrol as well, not a good lubricant, thats where the camshaft wear comes in, as it is a very loaded up component, Colin.

[Sharpo]

Thanks for the information on the injectors.

And, Colin, thanks for the hint towards and Alfa specialist. I'll need to look one up as the guy I was using at Compact Repair Centre in Mona Vale claimed he was one.

The smell when the car is running is super toxic, not really an oil smell, but the best way I can describe it is trying to breath next to a chemical plant. It really is gnarly. Im wondering if it has something to do with the flush CRC out through the motor before the new oil went it. Or it's possible the oil additive he's put in to help reduce the noise from what might be the variator is burning up, or it's a combination of fuel and oil burning off.

Here are the links to the weird noise the engine made the day after I got the car back from the mechanic after its service. The first link you have to listen right at the beginning and the second one is a little further down the video and also shows a bit of smoke to. It has to be siad that at the time of the noise and the initail smoke blowing off and gradually dissappearing the car's exhuast didnt smell at all. Its only been a recent thing with the random puffs of exhaust smoke and I haven't heard the noise again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OOWhllZ8es&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRIKCjxXJc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Cheers

OS

[Sportscar Nut]

Wanksi, think you are correct. Apologies but sounds like the engine will need a rebuild and would not fit a /sh engine. The JTS direct injection are flawed and do not have a long life span. Were a great engine when new but the direct injection apparently causes significant carbon build up and two Alfa specialist have told me to not expect high mileage in my 'other half's'.

Colin, Beninca's replaced one injector (coil pack) on the JTS without a problem and engine runs fine. Apparently, Toyota (Jap's of course) were the first to recognise the problem with early direct injection and developed a 'staged' system to overcome the problem that most other manufacturers are now replicating (German's included). Not just an Italian issue.

All the best
Paul