Timing belt change - do the idlers as well?

[darkstar]

hi all

got a 98 GTV V6 that's due for a timing belt change

I've had two different mobs quote me $900 for the belt kit

but I can source the parts VERY much cheaper online - from http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/

they're quoting me just over 300 Aussie in total, including delivery - so I don't know why local garages just don't source their bits from the net. But anyway...

one question, they've quoted me for two things as follows:

1. Cam belt kit V6. V6 24v GATES cam belt with O.E. tensioner. V63.0
2. Cam belt idlers V6. 2x cam belt idlers for V6 engines.   

so what I'm wondering is, should I get the idlers as well, or just the cam belt kit?

thanks for any guidance

[Domenic]

Hey Darkstar,

If you're going to change the timing belt, you may as well do everything including the water pump. So idlers, tensioners and auxiliary belt. As it's been said time and time before by everyone on this forum, when it comes to doing a cambelt on these cars, you change everything at once and you have peace of mind.

No point just replacing a cam belt and tensioner, then having to pay for the labour again to change the water pump, it's just throwing money down the drain. I'm pretty sure majority would agree to change and replace everything.

The $900 quote probably included all of those, and by the time you add them all up, that's what it costs. $900 for parts sounds fair especially to do a cam belt on a  V6 including labour last time I checked was about $1500 give or take. This was a while ago, so I could be way off now.

Plus I'd rather support the local industry as well, if you're mechanic can't make a quid, then who is going to look after your pride and joy??
If you're located in Melb there are a few mechanics on the sponsors page that can do the job for you.

[wankski]

the cambelt kit is the belt obviously, the tensioner and the idlers. do it. idlers also go...

if your waterpump has never been changed then i'd consider it... but otherwise not essential on the gtv as they had the metal impellor from the get go...

[darkstar]

thanks guys. I'll get the idlers as well, and I'll check the service records to see if the water pump has been done.

sorry if this might've been answered elsewhere, but do you think I should take it to an Alfa specialist for this?

Domenic:
- I'm quite sure the quotes did NOT include a water pump
- I'm not prepared to pay an extra $600, because my mechanic can't be bothered doing a Google search to find parts MUCH cheaper on the net (as I did). I'm still going to get a local mechanic to actually do the work, so I can't see how I'm dudding the local industry anyway. What I can see is that local parts suppliers will lose business, and it seems to me to be a good thing, because they seem to be overcharging to the max.

[wankski]

no local mechanic. no way. they will not do it properly. it requires special alfa tools to do the job.

specifically, must have cam puller to remove the cam pulley off their spindle to allow proper tension, and engine specific cam blocks to set the timing to where it should be w/ cyl 1 at TDC. a generic mechanic will mark the old belt and match it the new and swap.

this is incorrect.

a generic will not have the tools nor the knowledge to do the job. if you take it to a generic mechanic, just save yourself the bother and put a bullet in it now.

[darkstar]

thanks man: I'll steer clear of generics then.

[colcol]

Darkstar, talk to a Alfa Romeo service provider on our sponsors page and have a talk to them about what they recomend changing, and work out if you want to buy the parts yourself and have them fitted, or if your mechanic wants to source the parts from their suppliers local or overseas, some of these Alfa Romeo service providers may have good prices on their fast moving parts, such as cam belts, tensioners, water pumps, oil filters, brake pads and rotors, due to the fact they buy in bulk, and just source slow moving parts locally, get your cam belt done by an Alfa Romeo service provider, as they have all the cam and flywheel lock tools and they have done it before, Colin.

[trippytipo]

Hi darkstar,

It is a known fact that mechanics make a cut from the prices of the parts they supply you with. You could definitely save on the cost of the parts if you supply your own, but how much would you really save? The mechanic could simply charge you the full price for the labour involved, right down to the dot and you'd still end up paying a fair bit. We all know how expensive labour in Australia is. He would definitely cut you some slack on the labour if the parts are coming from his arsenal and you ask for a discount. You'd also lose out on the workmanship guarantee as most mechanics I know will not guarantee the work they've done unless the parts come from their own suppliers.

This may sound a little controversial but you need to have a good relationship with your mechanic and you need to give him some incentive to go the extra mile for you and look after your car. Think about it.

[colcol]

Trippy, you hit the nail right on the head, a good mechanic is one you feel comfortable with, and you can talk to and you trust what they say, its like buying some spuds and taking it to a fish and chip shop and telling them to cook them, but still find out what they will charge for parts, and if they will still warranty the work with parts you supply, Colin.

[ALFAAA]

Hi darkstar,

If you are going to buy your parts from oversea's try www.ebspares.co.uk.

They do sell good quality parts.

I would change the lot has mention to be on the safe side.

[darkstar]

thanks all

this is certainly a lively and helpful forum

yeah, I'll talk to an Alfa specialist about what they reckon I should replace, etc, as well as what they'd charge for parts and labour, If it's going to be hundreds more for parts, as I expect, then I'll ask about supplying my own.

looks like the water pump hasn't been done, so will probably get that replaced too.

trippy: basically, you're saying that mechanics make a cut on parts, rather than charge it as labour, which would be the HONEST thing to do. It appears that they're trying to hide the fact that they're making a cut on parts, which in my view is a dodgey practise.

if they were going to be ethical about it, they should bill you for what the parts cost them, and anything extra should be counted as labour. Either that, or they should be  up-front about it and itemise their cut on the parts separately on the bill.

if the parts cost them say $100 and they put the cost of parts on the bill as $200, then that's just a lie, I would say.

what a couple of you seem to be saying is that I should just cop an extra $600 on the bill. Supposing that I could somehow get a 'discount', I can't imagine it's going to be anywhere near a $600 reduction. In my view, you're just telling me to be a mug. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

oh and Alfaaa, I will have a look at ebspares - cheers.

[Joe Garra]

In defence of mechanics upping the prices of parts, they can't be expected to keep parts in stock and only charge you what they paid. There is a cost involved in keeping parts on site.

[wankski]

this is getting out of hand, and this whole parts pricing is just conjucture based on the actions of a few, but not all.

Where are you based?

I can only say what is in my direct knowledge. I asked Lance Dixon, an alfa dealer, if they would perform the v6 belt change labour only for my cf3 156 v6. They said yes, no problem, and it would cost ~$930 labour alone to fit belt kit and WP.

I got my parts from the UK including pump and belt kit and accessory belt - cost me around $350.

So - dealer specialist from a well known and trusted dealershop - all in - looking at around $1300. not bad at all. this other stuff around it is all tripe. Indies should not be charging more than that - and I can say, in my investigations I had indies 'specialists' quote me far more than the dealer. In one case more than double! In the end I went with LD to fit my q2 diff for $400, again, labour only. Perfect job. Those lads have my full confidence.

YMMV. HTHs, good luck and all that!

[tony8028]

In defence of mechanics upping the prices of parts, they can't be expected to keep parts in stock and only charge you what they paid. There is a cost involved in keeping parts on site.

I think being an Alfa mechanic and having stock of timing belts isnt too much to ask is it? It's not like stocking some rare gold encrusted instrument cluster that may not even sell!

Sure, they can apply some mark up, but if guys like this can make a margin selling the whole kit and kaboodle for $280 ( http://bit.ly/GI1Q1U ) then I think mechanics could too.

I know they have to turn a dollar, but I think that timing belts are pretty easy money for a lot of these workshops. With some people paying up to $1300 for the job, is there really $1000 labour involved?

If you had a 33 that needed it done, you'd really have to weigh up your options budget wise, with the average price of a 33 around 3k these days.

[trippytipo]

this is getting out of hand, and this whole parts pricing is just conjucture based on the actions of a few, but not all.

Where are you based?

I can only say what is in my direct knowledge. I asked Lance Dixon, an alfa dealer, if they would perform the v6 belt change labour only for my cf3 156 v6. They said yes, no problem, and it would cost ~$930 labour alone to fit belt kit and WP.

I got my parts from the UK including pump and belt kit and accessory belt - cost me around $350.

So - dealer specialist from a well known and trusted dealershop - all in - looking at around $1300. not bad at all. this other stuff around it is all tripe. Indies should not be charging more than that - and I can say, in my investigations I had indies 'specialists' quote me far more than the dealer. In one case more than double! In the end I went with LD to fit my q2 diff for $400, again, labour only. Perfect job. Those lads have my full confidence.

YMMV. HTHs, good luck and all that!

Did LD say they would guarantee the work done if you were to provide the parts? Interesting what you mentioned about some indie garages charging crazy prices - I've had one quote me over $2200 for a timing belt change on mine!

In the end I got mine booked in for ~$1200 including tensioners, pulleys, water pump and labour.