Ceramic Coating

[Duk]

Can anybody recommend any ceramic coaters? I want to have the extractors I'm making internally and externally coated, but it seams that internal coating is rare in this country. I did email HPC, but got no reply.

[jimnielsen]

jethot coatings, castlemaine.

I have used them several times.. would not bother with internal coating. much easier if the extractors are SS...


http://www.jet-hot.com.au/

jim ~

[Neil Choi]

Jim

Why not bother with internal coating, is it that it is not exposed to the air and hence rust?

I don't know hence the question.

Cheers
Neil

[ANG156]

Duk,

Speak to ansrew newman from competition coatings in coburg, vic 03 9354 8021.

I spoke to him the other day about getting some exhuast headers done. He's a very knowledgeable bloke and quoted me $120 for fiat 124 manifolds. Normally the ceramic coating is silver and if you want black as i requested its an additional fee but he agreed to do it for the same price. He also coats inside and outside the manifold. This means it allows your exhaust gases to be cooler and flow faster than normally. Not sure how much the difference is but you can speak to him about all the technical stuff.

[Duk]

Cheers guys.
I want the insides coated to protect the metal from corrosion/oxidation. They are made from mild steel and I want them to last and the heat should be kept inside the gasses even better with internal and external coatings.
I did look at making them in stainless, but the cost of materials easily goes up by 3 or more times.

[shiny_car]

Some manufacturers say their warranty is void if you coat them. Why is this? I presume it might mean more heat retained in the metal, resulting in premature fatigue - would that be right?

Just putting it out there, to consider the 'cons' of doing it.

[Duk]

Some manufacturers say their warranty is void if you coat them. Why is this? I presume it might mean more heat retained in the metal, resulting in premature fatigue - would that be right?

Just putting it out there, to consider the 'cons' of doing it.

Yes for coating the outside only, more heat would be retained in the metal. If you coat the inside, then less heat will get into the metal.

[alfa75gta]

I coated my extractors with the primary aim of reducing engine bay heat and I'm convinced it was quite effective. Not really sure if it made performance gains but heat issues were definitely improved. Also, they sounded less tinny compared to before.  It cost me $400 about 6 years ago for four pieces, inside and out but I consider it money well spent. Also, it prevents rusting out - a great bonus.

[Duk]

I coated my extractors with the primary aim of reducing engine bay heat and I'm convinced it was quite effective. Not really sure if it made performance gains but heat issues were definitely improved. Also, they sounded less tinny compared to before.  It cost me $400 about 6 years ago for four pieces, inside and out but I consider it money well spent. Also, it prevents rusting out - a great bonus.

Got a name and phone number for reference? The more options the better  .
Interesting comment about the sound. I won't be doing any before and after sound comparisons, but it will be interesting to hear an otherwise standard 3 litre breathing through a 1.5" primaries, into twin 2" secondaries, then after the cat, twin 2.25" pipes into 3" exhaust. The 3" exhaust (twin 2.25" have very close cross sectional area to a single 3") is in anticipation of the supercharger being added. Without it and/or off boost, the car may sound a bit blegh. I'll wait and see (hear). A variable angle valve may be added at the very back of the system to vary the gas speed with load, though the rear muffler (a 3" Hooker Aerochamber) if it sounds awful or is too droney or loud.

[Gisdan]

I'm newly registered but have been reading this forum for a year now & I will apologise up front if this reply comes across as a commercial plug but I wanted to clarify a point or two about coatings. By way of knowledged base I am the Aust & NZ distributor for Zircotec products which includes their plasma sprayed ceramic coatings see www.zircotec.com for heaps of information on the UK site.

Anyway to my points, firstly, Zircotec don't coat the inside of pipes because simply put they can't guarantee that along the full length of curved / bent relatively small diameter pipes, you can get an even coating of anything, let alone a ceramic spray. You should ask you coater how they can guarantee this if they say they can do it. Bear in mind that most "ceramic" coatings on the Australian market are simply paint based with ceramic mixed in, so if they say they can run or flow the coating material down the pipes, ask how they prevent it pooling in bends & effectively reducing your pipe ID.

Secondly, coating the inside shouldn't be necessary to prevent corrosion. If the external coating is retaining the heat (& keeping the gases hotter for better flow) then on shut down the pipes will stay warmer longer & ensure that any residual moisture is evaporated.

Thirdly, whilst exhaust manufacturers may well claim that coating can crack their product, Zircotec has been coating all types of exhausts for over 15 years & has not had any reports of cracking exhausts from their earliest coatings. Remember that you can't make the pipes any hotter internally than they run when uncoated as the exhaust gas doesn't increase above it's temp when exiting the exhuast ports. The coating simply keeps the heat in the gas for longer which aids in gas flow.

Once again my apologies if this comes across as a commercial plug & also for the length of reply.

[shiny_car]

By way of knowledged base I am the Aust & NZ distributor for Zircotec products which includes their plasma sprayed ceramic coatings see www.zircotec.com for heaps of information on the UK site.

Are there agents/workshops in Melbourne or Geelong that offer your product?

[Gisdan]

Sorry no. We have stock on hand in Adelaide of the flexible ceramic heat shield material, Zircoflex, but coatings are UK only at this stage. We are progressing towards establishing a joint venture with the UK company to do coatings here locally but at this stage it looks like the end of 2012 before we will be up & running.

[Cool Jesus]

On the subject of warranty, you'll find that any manufacturer of goods will claim it void if a third party has modified their product. It stands to reason that as the original manufacturer you've placed an item as is into the marketplace and warrant its use and the workmanship for a minimum life span. If your product is then modified, it is no longr the product you manufactured. Even though third parties claim no detrimental effect to the product, the real question is, do these third parties warrant their product and/or modification to sustain the original equipment warranty?

[alfagtv58]

Once again my apologies if this comes across as a commercial plug & also for the length of reply.

Not at all Gisdan, it was a logical and technical response that added value to the thread.  Welcome!!  Pics of your Series 1 Alfetta on another thread please....

[Duk]

Anyway to my points, firstly, Zircotec don't coat the inside of pipes because simply put they can't guarantee that along the full length of curved / bent relatively small diameter pipes, you can get an even coating of anything, let alone a ceramic spray. You should ask you coater how they can guarantee this if they say they can do it. Bear in mind that most "ceramic" coatings on the Australian market are simply paint based with ceramic mixed in, so if they say they can run or flow the coating material down the pipes, ask how they prevent it pooling in bends & effectively reducing your pipe ID.

Valid points about actually getting the coating inside the pipe around the bends and that is 1 area that has always had me wondering about how they do it. Though I wouldn't be concerned about reducing the pipes ID with a bit of excess coating. Fact of the matter is, road cars operate over such a broad rev/load range that I seriously doubt you could notice it.

Secondly, coating the inside shouldn't be necessary to prevent corrosion. If the external coating is retaining the heat (& keeping the gases hotter for better flow) then on shut down the pipes will stay warmer longer & ensure that any residual moisture is evaporated.

While maybe splitting hairs, oxidation will take place when fresh air with a bit of moisture content gets inside the pipe. That would take a while after being shut down, but it does happen.
Innovate AFR meters will show oxygen percentage if the sensor has been exposed to air for long enough. This can happen when the engine hasn't run for a decent length of time.
Also, petrol engine exhaust gas is corrosive and metal that is heated hot enough, has its grain structure opened up (just look at brazing steel where the parent metal is heated to dull red, this opens up the parent metals grain structure and allows it to hang onto the lower melting temperature filler metal (brass)) and this will give even more surface area exposure to corrosive gasses and any moisture.

I'm not disagreeing with you as much as wanting to make sure I can get the longest life I can out of my extractors. Increasing performance by keeping the exhaust gasses as hot as possible and the under bonnet temperatures as low as possible are an obvious benefit.