What to do with my brakes??

[Polyal]

Ok so next on my hit list is brakes. Now when I brought the car I will admit I did little research and I have now found that I have only one brake booster in a dual circuit car. I guess the previous owner had issues and thought it was a cheaper way to fix it?

When I test drove the car it stopped fine, and still does but I think I want to return it to standard spec.

Before this though the brakes themselves need attention. Rightly or wrongly I feel I want to get all four corners either rebuild/reconditioned as the car was sitting for 10 years and I have been told my brakes are grabbing a bit. I can feel it a little, and there is some squeaking but nothing terminal.

I would also like to keep my stock steel rims for now too, Ive looked at period mags but everytime I look at the car as is I am happy.

So, my list at the moment is (excluding fixing the booster ASAP);

Rebuild calipers
Flush Fluid, new fluid and bleed
Change Pads

So far I have been quoted ~$850 for that work. I was thinking of new rotors while I was there perhaps?

My main question is are there alternatives? Any upgrades I can do that look stock but might give a better result? Any brake upgrade kits? As I said, along as it fits behind my steelies I am happy.

Curious to know what others have done.

Thanks!

[Barry Edmunds]

Hi Polypal
There are many 105 owners who prefer the single booster setup over the dual booster as the latter can be a pain in the proverbial. If the car stopped fine during your test drive and still does, why change it. An overhaul of the calipers would be recommended though, particularly if one or more calipers are grabbing. If your car has veeb sitting for 10 years I'd suggest that you get the overhaul done sooner rather than later and particuarly and only by a brake expert who knows something about 105 Series Alfas or better still one of the specialist Alfa workshops that supports the Club.
Because brake fluid absorbs water/moisture it should be flushed out and replaced every 12 months so if your car has been sitting for that long a flush and replace is long overdue anyway.
That quote doesn't sound unreasonable considering the work to be carried out. Why not get a second opinion if you are unsure? Check the thickness of the rotors. If close to or at the minimum thickness they will have to be replaced anyway.
In standard form Alfa brakes are usually more than adequate for normal road use so unless you plan on hitting the race track why change from standard or upgrade?
Barry

[Polyal]

Hi Polypal
There are many 105 owners who prefer the single booster setup over the dual booster as the latter can be a pain in the proverbial. If the car stopped fine during your test drive and still does, why change it. An overhaul of the calipers would be recommended though, particularly if one or more calipers are grabbing. If your car has veeb sitting for 10 years I'd suggest that you get the overhaul done sooner rather than later and particuarly and only by a brake expert who knows something about 105 Series Alfas or better still one of the specialist Alfa workshops that supports the Club.
Because brake fluid absorbs water/moisture it should be flushed out and replaced every 12 months so if your car has been sitting for that long a flush and replace is long overdue anyway.
That quote doesn't sound unreasonable considering the work to be carried out. Why not get a second opinion if you are unsure? Check the thickness of the rotors. If close to or at the minimum thickness they will have to be replaced anyway.
In standard form Alfa brakes are usually more than adequate for normal road use so unless you plan on hitting the race track why change from standard or upgrade?
Barry

Hey Barry.

Thanks for the info thats great. The quote is from a Alfa specialist, I dont plan on really hitting the track, id love a couple of club type days but other than that not much..maybe some driver training aswell.

Im new to this dual circuit business. Is it common to change to a single booster? Can all the dual circuit stuff be left so if I do change my mind then it can be put back? Im not 100% sure of the condition of the booster now, but id rather reco one than buy two new ones.

Is there any advantage to the dual other than being the 'correct" spec? I agree if I can get away with the current system then I will do that for now and concentrate on the capliers/rotors/pads/fluid.

Last question, the lines will probably be shot to and while the fluid is out worth changing, can I use braided lines like these?

http://www.alfaholics.com/2010/07/earls/

Thanks again

[Colin Byrne]

like barry said the standard brakes are more than enough for general road driving

if your going to re-build the calipers i  would also recommend replacing the seals in the MC as they are known to fail

No problem going to braided lines, while your at it you should get a braided line to replace the clutch flexible line as this is known to fail often

cheers

[Polyal]

like barry said the standard brakes are more than enough for general road driving

if your going to re-build the calipers i  would also recommend replacing the seals in the MC as they are known to fail

No problem going to braided lines, while your at it you should get a braided line to replace the clutch flexible line as this is known to fail often

cheers

colin, would they be ok for the odd (like once or twice a year) track day/ driving course?

I think they did mention the MC and checking it over. Are there any stockist for braided lines in Oz?

[aggie57]

Don't want to be a spoiler but is the dual circuit system still operative?  Just that the dual booster setup was introduced in RHD cars to comply with requirements in many jurisdictions to have braking on at least one wheel on each axle in the event of total fluid loss in the other. 

The set up on a RHD 105, with bottom hinged pedals and the master cylinder under the floor, does not provide the space necessary to have a single booster acting on two circuits.   The LHD cars have space in front of the firewall to allow a change to top hinged pedals but on a RHD car that's where the carbs are.  Fixed on Alfetta's via the cross-bar and as used on many LHD spiders converted to RHD.

[Craig_m67]

Aplisters right.. Some clear photos of the master cylinder and lines would help people here identify what your car has become.  I have single circuit brakes on the Duetto and it pulls up fine. Both when it had Dunlop clippers and now that it's ATE.

There's lots of choices for brakes.. Whatever you do, do not look at Alfaholics website for upgrades 

[Polyal]

Aggie...hmm well I will admit you have caught me out with ignorance, I didnt even know they had dual circuit when I brought it. In saying that over the next couple of weeks i intend on buying several 105 books to get up to speed.

So where should I be taking pics? I dont have access to a hoist or anything like that right at the minute.

If it has been changed to a single system is there any point in going back?

The only reason I have stated to the mechanic to keep the dual is because I assumed it was all still there.

Craig, I have looked at Alfaholics, the 4 pot system is temping but then I think I have to change my rims, I want to keep the steelies. My quote to get the whole system done, basically the above plus the MC looked at and two reco'd boosters was $1300!

If I can keep the current Booster and MC then that will cut costs a fair bit and allow cash more perhaps a better caliper/rotor/pad setup.

Im also assuming I have ATE's...how do I check that?

[Colin Byrne]

colin, would they be ok for the odd (like once or twice a year) track day/ driving course?

Not a problem at all, my dad still runs the standard callipers and disks on his 105 and even with the new motor putting out around 140bhp@RW with Dunlop dzo3 I was doing nearly 2min laps in it with no sign of brake fade.
Before considering an upgrade on the car you should be working out exactly what you are trying to improve.  A blanket statement like "I want it to stop better" is too vague, is it fade, bias, feel that needs improvment?
And a side note on the alfaholics callipers, I agree that do look nice and shiny, most things that come out of a CNC machine usually do, has anyone had any actuall experience with them?  Caliper design is very tricky, particularly around the seal design,
I run the Volvo callipers and they have been very good, they are however very heavy so I just managed to get my hands on a set of AP callipers.  Currently designing a suitable bracket to match the uprights.  Have found a similar set for the rears so they are next.

[aggie57]

Suggest start by a photo of the booster area showing the connection in and out, and one of the master cylinder again showing the connections in and out.

I agree with the others - standard brakes are fine for most club level events so long as everything is in good working order, well maintained and the pads are a good hard quality. I never changed my brakes in 2 years in my GTV and only swapped the brakes out when I pulled that car apart.

But I would add that of you have any doubts about what is actually fitted then yes, please do get them thoroughly checked by someone who knows these cars.

[Polyal]

Just a little update, since I am short on time I decieded to take it in ASAP to a shop to get it looked at and sorted.

First report back, all four corners need rebuilding ah well, it was making a bit of noise but I certainly wasnt driving it like it had any major issues.

Im yet to hear back about the MC and booster situations, they think that maybe just my fronts my be assisted..should hear back tomorrow about that. Im fixing it the cheats way but I want to make sure safety things are done right.