Hoist help needed?

[deemac66]

Apologies in advance if this is an inappropriate post.

I am a genuine Alfa enthusiast (having owned a 147 man. a 156 TS Selespeed and currently a 156 JTS Selespeed)

I specialise in repairing,servicing and installing vehicle lifts (hoists).

I am not interested in self promotion nor will I partake in any derogatory remark's on products or people, however...

If any one wishes to ask/discuss/ponder any issue on vehicle lift's I would rather them hear the right advice on safety/maintenance on their hoist, so I am offering my experience here.

[dehne]

Do you know of any cheap good condition hoists for sale, need one for the garage
Thanks

[MD]

Dehne > cheap and good are about as common as expensive and crap. 

Mate if it was my scone, I'd be going with sound and well maintained and just pay the going rate.

[1750GT]

Deemac66 welcome and I must say that I'd love some advice on hoists. I have had a tufflift hoist for about three years. Best investment I've ever made. And MD your right you cna get cheap hoists but! when its a safety issue you don't want to take the chance. i could have gone for a lighter weight cheaper hoist but went for a higher lift more haevy duty hoist and never had a problem.

Deemac66, could you give me some advice on two things:
1/ Although they say that you don't have to bolt the hoists in (Ihave a four poster hoist) is there any downside long term to the mechanisms if you don't. I have a couple of times when the back end has got a bit out of square and I've had to slowly re-lift and then lower the hoist to straighten it up.
2/ I haven't had the need to service it. But it is constantly holding cars. Is their specific servicing that you should do/intervals and are there specialists near inner city Melbourne that offer on site servicing at reasonable prices.

1750GT

[mn1]

Tks for this topic..I've been looking for advice across a variety of forums in the last few days and not found anything.

I am going to install a 2 post hoist in my new garage.

I have 4 cars none of which top 1300kg as a max weight.
one is mid engined, one is FWD, 2 are RWD.

I am buying an existing house so hardness and thickness of floor is Unknown ...I'm going to test drill in a couple of spots to make an estimate. I figure with these relative light weight cars I can get away with something less than ideal. Comments re minimum welcome.

Should I worry about asymmetric or symmetric arms? I currently understand that with lightweight cars it doesn't really matter.

Are there good and bad locking mechs?

Are there good and bad lift methods?

I have a height limit. are there lifts avail that can stop me going too high...it's bound to happen one day.

Feel free to compare features across products even if it means bagging the opposition. I'm going to do heaps more research rather than just take someone else's word for it so all comments, positive and negative will be weighed carefully.

Lift King  and AAQ are the two I've found so far.

What should I budget, for supply only?

Tks

Mike
0410521140

[Beatle]

Another consideration is availability of single or three-phase power.

[deemac66]

Sorry for the late reply!

@ dehne best bet is, IMO cheap = nasty. If your looking at buying a hoist new or second hand consider looking at whether the hoist complies with Australian Standard AS1418. Almost all sellers will confirm they comply with work safe requirements. Work safe requirements are easily complied with Aus Standards are an assurance of build quality. Don't buy a hoist from a supplier which has no certificate of compliance with Aus Standards. It would be an easy out for any insurance company should an accident occur.

@ MD very, very good advice.

@ 1750GT always, always bolt down your hoists. I know people say it fine but I would never recommend it. Take a look at any major manufacturer of vehicle lifts in any Country and they are very specific about what bolts to use and the minimum specification of the concrete. I have and will never fit a hoist without bolting it down.

@ 1750 All hoist suppliers that I am aware of recommend an annual inspection, this is a safety inspection and there are two Australian Standards which must be complied with AS/NZ 2550:9 1996—Cranes—Safe use—Vehicle Hoists and also AS 2759-2004 Steel wire rope—Use, operation and maintenance. I would ring the supplier and ask for a recommended service agent. A hoist which has not been bolted down nor had its annual inspection is also an easy way out for insurance companies should an accident occur. I would also lube the cables every three months. The wire ropes mostly fail from lack of lubrication and can fail from the inside out, giving very little indication of impeding failure. A good lubricant would be Castrol's TAC2

@ mn1 Most hoist manufacturers recommend a minimum floor thickness of between 150 - 200 mm. Most home garages have a minimum thickness of 125 mm. Molnar are a hoist manufacturer made in Adelaide (Australia's most popular hoist) they can be installed on a 100 mm minimum thickness floor. There are usually many available on the second hand market. The hoist i would recommend for home use would be this one http://www.molnarhoists.com.au/products/two-post-hoists/base-two-post-hoist/ It has been in production since 1985 so it is possible to buy quite an old one. Best bet is to get a hoist with a good service history and ring the service company. If you want to know the hoists age just record the serial number and ring Molnar, they will tell you how old it is and where it was sold.

Asymmetric arms are really only designed to allow easier egress and access to the vehicle. I have seen quite a few vehicle "fall backwards" off of hoists so I'm not really a big fan of asymmetric hoists.

Locking mechanisms must be of "dead man type" meaning as soon as you walk away they should either engage or be capable of engaging if a rope breaks. I'm not aware of any hoists sold which have dodgy locks. I do like mechanical locks over electric but to be honest I don't really see many problems with electric locks.

Good lifts would be four and two post hoists I'd stay away from single post lifts. Take a look at scissor lifts they take up much less room but cant be used for vehicle storage.

All "clear floor" type lifts have an "interrupt bar" at the top which trips a micro switch cutting out the motor. I have purchased a couple of these bars as spare parts and fitted them to overhead beams to cut out the motor on scissor lifts. Pic attached. I bought it from Powerrex in NSW.

mn1 the best advice I could give you is get a Molnar. There is a reason most race teams and dealerships use them. You should be able to pick something up second hand for about 2k. The only other suppliers i would consider is Powerrex and Precision Automotive. Their back up is excellent and easily accessed through Burson Automotive outlets.

[pasey25]

that molnar hoist looks great but its about 100-150mm too high for my garage at 2770mm

can you recommend any other options for those of us with low ceilings?

[deemac66]

Are you after a hoist to perform under car services or for vehicle storage? If your after a hoist for service work take a look at a scissor lift. I have found these to conform to Australian Standards and are very well backed up http://www.precisionautomotive.com.au/productrange/vehicle-hoists/summit/ST7130.php Obviously can't store another vehicle underneath though.

I think your problem will be getting the vehicle high enough to be at a useful height. Most hoists have a lift height of 1900mm + a normal car roof height of 1500mm (your 156 is 1430mm) means you will need a shed roof height of 3400mm. If your roof height is 2620 (which is the Molnar lift less the 150mm you stated) you will only be able to lift your 156 to approximately 1140mm, hardly enough to be useful.

[Beatle]

Does 'asymmetric' refer to the fore/aft vehicle positioning on the hoist or lateral positioning?   I've always thought it refers to fore/aft.  So with that in mind I thought the idea of an asymmetric type hoist was to allow for the fact that very few vehicles have their centre of gravity equidistant between the jack points.  So on a hoist with the car positioned dead centre, there will likely be more weight or behind the posts, applying a side/tilt load (undesirable).  So lifting an Alfetta you'd be OK as the weighting is pretty good, but lifting a Landcruiser would be dangerous as they are considerably front-heavy, moreso with barwork installed.

[deemac66]

The "Asymmetric" tag does refer to the fore-aft positioning of the vehicle. You are quite correct in so far as the asymmetric design allows the centre of gravity of the vehicle to be positioned closer to the centre of the hoist. It is always a good idea to refer to the "loading chart" of the hoist to identify the best way to position a vehicle (if that information is available). Some hoist manufacturers recommend driving rear engined cars on backwards. Most hoists (asymmetric or symmetric are more than capable of handling the (usually) small weight bias of a front engined vehicle. As I understand it, the primary reason for the popularity of asymmetric hoists was to allow more room to open vehicle doors while the vehicle is positioned on the lifting arms.
To tell if the loading of your vehicle is correct lift the vehicle up approx 300mm then grab a bumper bar - tow bar and shake the vehicle, you can tell pretty quickly if the vehicle is positioned correctly.

[1750GT]

Thanks I will need to look soon for a service agent thru tufflift and get that inspection done.

I agree with the height that you quoted. I have a four post with a garage height of 3.7m and although its great and you can walk under the hoist, I wish I had another 300mm or so, I reckon 4m height is perfect. The scissor lifts are a great idea when you have limited height but then again if you have limited height like 2.7m I reckon for the trouble drive on ramps are just as effective and a whole lot more in-expensive and rigid. Link to veiw what scissor lifts look like: http://www.aaq.net.au/shop/listings/scissor-lifts.

I looked at the Molnar when I was looking for a lift but I liked the tufflift better just because their steel and systems looked a git more substantial and the hydraulics carry a larger resevior. Cost of both were very similar. In fact with the standard hoists bought thru the well known companies there really isn't much between them. Then theres the endless cheapies and they look nasty and I wouldn't put my cars on them.

When I was looking there were some great, high quality german hoists but they were nudging $10-$15K. I definitely agree that I would not long term store a vehicle on a two post vehicle servcing type hoist. Although there are many advertisements talking about long term storage on two posters the sensible companies say tha a four post is the best for hoists you want to use for both servicing and storage.

1750GT

[pasey25]

Are you after a hoist to perform under car services or for vehicle storage? If your after a hoist for service work take a look at a scissor lift. I have found these to conform to Australian Standards and are very well backed up http://www.precisionautomotive.com.au/productrange/vehicle-hoists/summit/ST7130.php Obviously can't store another vehicle underneath though.

I think your problem will be getting the vehicle high enough to be at a useful height. Most hoists have a lift height of 1900mm + a normal car roof height of 1500mm (your 156 is 1430mm) means you will need a shed roof height of 3400mm. If your roof height is 2620 (which is the Molnar lift less the 150mm you stated) you will only be able to lift your 156 to approximately 1140mm, hardly enough to be useful.

thanks for these calcs.

i'd wanted to store the fulvia on the lift with a car underneath. that now seems impossible, (the fulvia is 1300mm high). will have to resort to wheel dolly's and put the fulvia up sideways at the rear of the garage (that will fit, just a pain to get the car in and out). Sick of having a car out in the weather.