New GTV6 Owner

[Albygtv]

Hi Everyone,

Bought a GTV6 in Brisbane on Friday, so I feel the need to share my excitement. The purchase came about because I hope to retire soon and at the start of the year thought it was time to buy a classic that would keep me interested and passionate about cars when I have more time on my hands. I've owned over 80 cars including a couple of stepnose 105's, a Porsche 911, 4 Alpine Renaults, a number of off-road racing buggies, some dirt rallying cars and a tarmac rally car. So, any car that would keep my interest up for a long period has a lot to live up to. On the other hand, I've had lots of experience to work out what I like.

I need a classic, sporty car, not common, good performance and handling, good enthousiastic club, preferably a great competition record  and a car or brand that ignites passion. Truth be told, I very quickly narrowed my list down to a Porsche 911 or 944, Triumph TR8 or Capri V6 and my wife, Di, and I had some enjoyable trips around the country looking at samples of these cars. Saw some good ones, but always kept a niggly feeling that they weren't quite what I really was looking for.

Then about 2 months ago I saw a car I had overlooked drive past where I was standing. It was a red Alfetta GTV and I was instantly hooked. I knew a lot about these cars as I had nearly purchased one a few times in the past but somehow had forgotten about them. This time, I raced home and got down all my alfa books, jumped on the PC and did more research, and knew I had found the perfect combination for me - finally a car that ticked all the boxes. Only 2 issues left - finding the right one, and should it be a 2 litre or V6?

Started looking and soon found a few possibles. Looked at  4 cylinder cars first as they were a fair bit cheaper and would also be cheaper to maintain in retirement. Loved the driving experience of these cars and went close to buying one, but really couldn't resist the conclusion that I should look at and drive a V6 before making up my mind, or I might always regret it. Drove a lovely red V6  and was instantly in love. That engine is just fantastic and I simply had to have one. While making up my mind on that car another red one appeared on ebay about 2 weeks ago. It was in Brisbane which was a problem as I'm in Melbourne. But it sounded reasonable, was a good "starting price" and had power steering which appealed to me - as I've got older the balance between raw feel and comfort/ease has definitely changed more to the latter for me. Talked to the owner who had owned the car for 14 years and to Angelo who had done all the work on the car. Decided to take a chance and put a bid in.

Auction over on last Tuesday lunchtime and I was the only bidder but hadn't reached the reserve. Two hours later had completed the deal and committed to being in Brisbane on Friday to inspect the car and, if as described, hand over the money and drive away. Two hours after that, had to explain to Di what I'd done and that I was flying to Brisbane on Friday morning and hopefully driving the car back via Sydney on Saturday and Sunday, and did she want to come?  Her reaction was something like - what, take a 30 year old, unregistered car that you've never seen before and drive it 1800 kilometres in 2 days with no margin for error if we want to get to work on Monday?  You must be mad!!!            Alright, I'll come.

Arrived at the Alfa's home Friday afternoon and was initially disappointed. The 5 year old paint respray wasn't very good and seemed to be a non-alfa red and there were numerous small things I didn't like – the heater valve clearly didn't work and had been gunged over with silastic, similarly some of the air vents, the earlier model seats that had been put in rather than refurbish the originals didn't suit me as well, the brake pedal seemed to go almost to the floor and didn't inspire confidence, the gear change was truly horrible and the clutch was the same as the other V6 I'd driven which meant I almost had to hit my jaw with my left knee to engage it (alright, a slight exaggeration). Slowly however, the good points started taking over.  No sign of accident damage and no rust anywhere except a very small area at the bottom of the tailgate window, the engine was exceptionally smooth and quiet and felt very strong, gearbox synchro's all worked, even 2nd gear, the power steering was great, not too light at all, and the car generally felt quite tight and good to drive. Apparently the gearbox and clutch were reconditioned about 4 years ago and the power steering was from a 90 was put in then with a reconditioned rack. Then about 1 year ago the engine was replace with a reco'ed one out of another car. Did the deal, arranged a permit to drive the car home and retired to the Gold Coast for the night to contemplate being back in the great world of alfa's 

Left at 8am Saturday morning after having difficulty getting it started and the engine clearly not being happy when cold. Spent the first 3 or 4 hours watching the gauges and listening for every sound. By our lunchbreak, the gauges had not moved at all from where they should be, no oil had been used and the water level hadn't changed. The engine was feeling better and better and even the standard fairly soft suspension was working well on those sort of roads. Got more confident, drove a little quicker (around the speed limit or up to 10 k's over sometimes until I worked out the speedo accuracy (or lack of it) – didn't want to get stopped in a car without plates, even if I did have all the right paperwork). Got to Sydney in 10.5 hours and then did the same again yesterday to arrive home in Melbourne about 6pm. Car started first try in the much colder Sydney morning and ran smoothly straight away so the run obviously did it some good.

No problems of any kind on the trip. Car is great but already has a list of jobs a mile long, ranging from things needed for an RWC, improving the gear change as per suggestions on this forum, improving the clutch take-up (is this possible?), finding some correct seats (anyone got any spare?) to some improvements to the suspension and brakes, along with some decent wheels just to get the look and feel in line with my preferences.

Overall, I really love it – a fantastic  car for its time and still great today, very under-rated which is surprising for a car with fantastic looks, such a passion inducing brand and a great competition record.  Not sure why I've never had one before or why I'd sort of forgotten about them, but I'm going to enjoy making up for that over the next few years.

Cheers, Alby

[Albygtv]

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the welcome and your suggestions. I should have said that the car I want must also be very suitable for club drive days and the occasional track day, as I certainly will join you for some of these. Track days may be a while as I'd like to get the car to a certain standard of handling and braking before this, but drives could be as soon as its registered. By the way the two line astern red GTV's in your second picture are exactly the look I'm aiming to end up with. Are they 15 or 16 inch rims on those two cars?

Also, thanks for the tip on the brakes. I will probably go straight to this set-up rather than spend any time or money on the existing set-up. My previous experience all says that for maximum fast road and track performance and enjoyment, focus on the brakes, tyres, springs and shockers first, so as these need doing might as well do them right. I'm past the stage where I want to do serious competition, but would still want to enjoy track time with a car that's set-up right.

[MD]

Welcome to the Forum. If you are not an existing club member, I suggest that you join. Alfa club members are hard to categorise but certainly often think -out of the square-and you will find them most helpful and willingly share in your enthusiasm. The perfect place to start in your situation.

The GTV6 is a very special vehicle and a great choice. Keep the secret under your hat 'cause once the secret gets out the prices will go higher than the leaning tower of Pisa ! 

Best wishes for your project.

[Evan Bottcher]

Welcome Alby!

Great choice of vehicle. Power steering must be a great addition to the GTV6 - I've driven a couple of stock ones and found the steering very heavy at parking speeds, enough to be annoying.  What's the rack from?

+1 to MDs suggestion to join the club.  Vic club application forms are here: http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/content/view/15/28/

We hold club nights every month and visitors are welcome, so you can 'try before you buy'.  Those are the best place to quickly get access to some knowledgable people face to face and get some advice, spare parts, etc.

Also if you are looking for a knowledgable mechanic or spare parts check out the list of sponsors on the club home page: http://alfaclubvic.org.au/  - all are passionate and experienced with older Alfas.

cheers,
Evan.

[Albygtv]

Thanks for that good info Paul. 16 inch rims seem the way to go as the look very right on those cars and overall tyre size would be quite close to stock. Yep, I dealt with Stuckey's for tyres in a previous life quite some years ago. They were very helpfull then and it sounds like they haven't changed. Like your tyre recommendation - one or two track days per year sounds about right for me.

Hey MD and Evan. Thank you for the warm welcome. I sent in my application to join AROCA Vic last week so should be a full paid up member any day now. I'll try and keep the secret about GTV6's, but my enthousiasm gets the better of me sometimes. They are remarkable value. I wasn't particularly budget limited in my choice and could have, for instance bought a reasonable Porsche 911 SC. I'm very glad I chose the Alfa. In standard form its a better tourer at least for me (said after owning a 911 previously and just having spent nearly 20 hours over 2 days in the GTV6 and feeling fine at the end of it) although not as good a "sports" car. However, as shown numerous times on this and other forums, the sky is the limit in terms of personalising the specs of our own cars to be exactly what we want them to be. I really can't wait to get more into it.

The power steering is from an Alfa 90 and seems a very neat installation, pretty much a factory look. Still has the standard GTV6 switches, so presumably used the standard column. I haven't driven these cars enough to comment well about it, but initial reactions are that at speed it doesn't feel powered at all - in fact very similar to my memory of short test drives in other GTV6's.  Even at parking speed or stationary its certainly not light, but does seem to take that"extra effort" needed right out. As soon as the car is registered, you're more than welcome to drive it. I'd be interested in the feedback from way more experienced GTV6 drivers. Driving it in highway touring conditions I was very comfortable with it. Hope to see what its like in the mountains soon.

Cheers, Alby

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Hi Alby, good to hear you're happy with the GTV6 so far, sounds like you made a good choice.  (Personally, having driven a 911 SC I would have got one of those, but don't tell anyone.  Although, the Alfa V6 does sound better than the Porsche)

+1 on Paul's suggestion for the brake upgrade.  I have exactly that set-up on my track 90 and it is very good.  I've done a solid hour at Winton on those brakes with minimal fade, and there is a better choice of pads with those calipers too.

Regarding the power-steering.  The 90 steering is just brilliant, you're lucky to have that upgrade.  The rack is quicker than the GTV6 one, and the assistance is just right at low-speed.  You're right on the money with your feelings about it not being assisted at speed, it's speed-variable, and I believe there is no assistance over 70km/h.  For a PS system it is brilliant, and not too far off an unassisted 911 SC in terms of feel.

With the clutch engaging when your knee hits your jaw, sounds like you still have the early clutch.  The later clutch from a 75 or 90 Super is better, but is still quite 'late' compared to some other cars, but easy to get used to.  When you upgrade to an LSD transaxle from a 75 TS, you can do the clutch as well.....

I talked to Stuckey about those tyres a couple of years ago, and they did sound like an excellent compromise choice of tyre.  Excellent on the road, and could cope with a track day or two, but be only a second behind a genuine track tyre.  But he would say that....

As others have said, there is plenty to do to these cars to suit them to your needs, and all the knowledge you need is amongst the club members, and this forum.  Hope to see you at a meeting soon.  If you want to see what a later clutch feels like, let me know and you can come and have a drive of my 90 Super.

Cheers
Sheldon

[Albygtv]

Thanks Sheldon. Its great that people go out of their way to make a new member feel welcome and I certainly do.

I might take you up on that offer to drive your car and see what the clutch is like. Both the car I bought and the one I previously drove feel the same to me and both owners told me their car had been changed to the "single plate" clutch (if I'm using the right terminology). May be its just a matter of getting used to it and it won't seem so bad. Also could be because my current road car is an Audi S3 with really slick 6 speed box and a clutch you hardly notice using. the contrast might be too much for me but that problem will soon disappear as the Audi is up for sale and I'm planning the Alfa as my main driver.

Thanks for confirming my initial thoughts on the power steering. Certainly all makes sense and living inner city with lots of tight spaces and sharp roundabouts, I think I'll be pretty glad to have it. As for 911's, its probably mainly a matter of perspective, but sometimes I feel like the only person around whose not a complete fan of them. Might make for some further debate over a red wine at a club event at some stage. Had a day off work today and spent the morning doing some Alfa things (mainly re getting an RWC) - felt really good.

Cheers, Alby

[pancho]

Welcome Alby! - you'll now need to get used to random Alfa aficionados giving you the thumbs up - not many GTV6's on the road now. I for one certainly chase them down to check the car out and I used to own one myself! 

[ItalCarGuy]

Good stuff Alby! You're gonna have a blast. What ever happened to your Sprint GT project? I remember it being rather needy...

[Sheldon McIntosh]

I might take you up on that offer to drive your car and see what the clutch is like. Both the car I bought and the one I previously drove feel the same to me and both owners told me their car had been changed to the "single plate" clutch (if I'm using the right terminology).

Ah.  Well if you have the single-plate clutch I'm afraid that's as good as it gets.  Get used to it.  You're still welcome to come and have a drive of my 90 Super, but it's unlikely to be any different.  (Give me a week or so to get it roadworthy, I'm working on some electrics.....) 

As for 911's, its probably mainly a matter of perspective, but sometimes I feel like the only person around whose not a complete fan of them. Might make for some further debate over a red wine at a club event at some stage.

You think that's bad, try being the only person in the club who thinks that the 90 Super is a better car than the GTV6, that makes life interesting.  I loved the Clarkson video recently posted in the Video section about the 155Q4.  "Of all the cars I drove as a motoring journalist in the 1980s, the Alfa Romeo GTV6 was one of the worst.....I bought one!"    http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=9119.0

On that note, did you consider a 928s manual when you were looking?  I reckon they're the bargain of the century right now.  Hard to find in manual, but they do pop up sometimes.  When I drove the 911SC on the track I was comparing it back-to-back with a 928 auto, and the track times were very similar.  Probably a little harder to look after as a backyard mechanic than any Alfa though...

Sorry to take the thread off-topic, but just wondering.

Cheers
Sheldon

[Albygtv]

Hey Pancho, I'll enjoy getting used to that. I'm old enough to remember when there were quite a few makes where drivers flashed each other. It contributed to my early liking of Renaults, simply because I thought it was cool. Still do, as long as we're talking about interesting cars.

Great to hear from you Derek. Yeah, the Sprint was somewhat needy. A very big job at a time when other, more important. non-car issues were occupying my time, so I didn't make much progress. Eventually realised I wasn't going to get there, so sold it to a nice guy from Sydney whose name escapes me at the moment. Hope he's gone well with it. I learnt my lesson and this time only wanted a car I could enjoy driving while giving myself small, managable projects every so often to improve it. I need to get the driving enjoyment fairly regularly or motivation goes.

Oh dear Sheldon, I completely understand what being the "only person in the club who thinks that the 90 Super is a better car than the GTV6" must be like. See my comment below about my favourite car which is one no-one has ever heard of, and those that may have, all rave about the V6 version. Being a natural underdog supporter is great fun but also can be quite frustrating - as you say, it "makes life interesting".

I did briefly consider a 928s manual as I enjoyed a drive of one about 10 years ago and was very impressed - a heck of a car for the money. However, did not last long on my list, not as long as a 944 for instance, partly for the reason you said - harder to look after - but mainly because I've always preferred the smaller, lighter, more nimble, more handling rather than horsepower type of car. Up to now my favourite car has been a light, 4 cylinder Alpine Renault A310 - 2 litres, 800 kg, race car suspension. A few years ago I would have preferred the 4 cylinder GTV but getting lazy as I get older and that V6 sounds so wonderful. Suffice to say,  my initial reaction to GTV6 ownership  is fantastic, why didn't I do this before, no second thoughts at all.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

The A310 is a gorgeous car, I always loved those.  Bet it would be awesome with the V6....   I loved the A610 too, especially the GTA.  Don't see too many around these days though, although I saw an A610 for sale last year for around $15k I think.  A friend of a workmate has an A610 which he plans to turn into a tarmac rally car.

You might appreciate this video...

Sorry for taking the thread even further off-topic etc.  Look forward to seeing your GTV6 at a club event soon.

[njh1964]

G'day Alby,

I was wondering how long it would take you to come back to the wonderful world of Alfas. Great choice, by the way, I've always loved the GTV6... maybe one day... but, in the meantime, I have to pull my finger out and get my GT1300 Junior on the road.

Cheers,


Nick

[Albygtv]

Thanks Sheldon, that's a great video clip, really enjoyed it. The danger of straying even further off-topic is very real. I've owned both types of A310, both heavily modified for tarmac rallying, a GTA and a mid engined 5 Turbo, and like most car nuts, I could talk about these cars all day. They are all great cars, but I'm going to leave it at that because I could have got another A310 but chose the GTV6 instead. I think the GTV6 is also a great car and I'm just as excited with mine as I ever have been with any car.

Hey Nick. Yeah, hasn't taken that long to get back to Alfa's has it. Last time we talked I thought you were getting to the home straight on yours. You'd better get it finished in time for us to have some great drives this coming spring. Can't wait to see it mobile.

Cheers, Alby

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Thanks Sheldon, that's a great video clip, really enjoyed it. The danger of straying even further off-topic is very real. I've owned both types of A310, both heavily modified for tarmac rallying, a GTA and a mid engined 5 Turbo, and like most car nuts, I could talk about these cars all day. They are all great cars, but I'm going to leave it at that because I could have got another A310 but chose the GTV6 instead. I think the GTV6 is also a great car and I'm just as excited with mine as I ever have been with any car.

I'm thinking you've probably run into my friend with the A610 then (or maybe it was an A310).  I won't mention names here, but him and his brother are referred to as 'the Germans', and had a few years ago a Renault 5 Turbo2, and still have I believe a Renault 12 Gordini.  They are excellent engineers, and handy people to know.

Glad to see that GTV6s still attract the right kind of people.....