Alfa 90 - External C-Pillar Trim R&I

[Beatle]

I'd like to remove the trailing edge covers off the C-pillars on my 90.  However I've been warned that these are almost impossible to remove without damage.

Anyone have experience and/or photos of these removed?

I've checked the Alfa 75 workshop manual, and assume the trims are held by the same means.  The manual says to " heat the lower side of molding itself with a warm jet of air"?   I interpret this to mean warming the inside space between trim and pillar, probably to soften a plastic plug/clip?

This looks like one of those jobs where you need to commit fully as a half baked attempt to prise them off will only end in tears......

I've also been thinking that I could stuff some kind of bladder/ballon inside and inflate it to apply even pressure across the trim piece.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?

[dehne]

I assume that you are going to paint that area, otherwise I would not be touching that area out of the ones that I have removed and that was in wrecks just to see what's there they were a bastard I think I got 1 off without damaging it but I also had no intention of putting it back. Can be done just be careful, I might have one on a wreck and try to get it off I will report back soon

[Beatle]

Thanks Dehne,

I have a small bubble of rust starting on top of the bodywork directly under the lower rear tip of the trim panel (RHS).  I can probably access it without removing the trim panel but would like to get the panel off if at all possible.

I managed to get my fingers up under the rust spot by pulling back the rubber fuel filler gasket inside the filler door and I can't feel anything inside.  It seems to be a single skin so the rust must be just starting, and only on the exterior at the moment.  Just enough to bubble the paint.  I guess I can get a scraper in there, treat it and get a small touch-up brush in without making too big a mess.

The trim seems to have a thick rubber gasket underneath it as you can see in the pics (between panel and glass).  I don't know how this differs from the 75.  I've been told that the trim on the 75 has a sticky mastic assisting the three pins holding it in place, hence the requirement for warm air (to soften the mastic).

I also have a small spot of rust at the very lower RH corner of the rear screen.  Can't get access to the underside as there is a sealed lateral section of structural bodywork.  Hopefully I can tend to this without too much problem. and at least it's not visible with the boot closed.

The trim panel on the 90 tucks in behind the gutter panel at the top leading edge, which is different to the basically straight panel on the 75. 

Dehne, do you know what the panel is made from?  Seems like plastic (I know it's not magnetic) but someone else reckons the 75 trim is cast aluminium ?

As always, I appreciate any photos you (or anyone) cares to provide.  There isn't much photographic record of the innards of the poor Alfa 90, and photos will be like gold when the 90 reaches the status of the 2600...................  

[Sheldon McIntosh]

Here's some gold for you...   http://alfaromeo90.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/welcome-to-my-humble-blog.html

This is a blog from a guy that was a member here for a short while, but he deleted his account when someone pissed him off.  He actually had some good posts on here, with some different pics that are on the blog, but I think the pics have been deleted from his posts as they were linked to a photobucket account which was also deleted.  Shame, as he seemed to know what he was talking about.

His forum tag was Typhoon90, you can search for them by going to your favourite search engine (as long as it's Google) and typing in "site:alfaclubvic.org.au" (without quotes) and then whatever you want to search for.  "Typhoon90' turns up a few I've noticed.

He did a bit of bodywork on the rear of his 90, and his blog has some pics of his 90 with all trim removed around the back, including those C-pillar trims.  His bodywork seems to be pretty good, but his paintwork is about a 6/10 (but far better than I could ever hope to do).  I know, because I recently bought his car.  It was getting water into the boot, but I've traced that to a blocked fuel filler drain (the guy I bought it off, the guy who bought it off Typhoon90, took it through the outback, I guess it got clogged with dust).

Good luck with your repairs, that looks like a nasty place to fix, I hope it isn't.  I've got some tiny bubbles appearing just under the fuel filler on this white one, due no doubt to the blocked drain as well, I'm hoping it's an easy fix.  I've also got some rust on the bottom of the doors, also due to blocked drains there.  You've had many Alfas, I'm sure I don't need to tell you to ensure that all drainage points are clear.

[dehne]

hey sheldon
You better but some pics of the new one up.

[Beatle]

Gold indeed Sheldon.  Many thanks for the link.  Although I'll need some practice at how to read a blog....it's all back-to-front chronoligacally speaking.

The rust in that car makes me feel a little better about mine, although it does show the potential........

Oh, and for the record, my 90 has a green overhead light cover.

That blog has raised some more questions, but rather than hijack my own thread I'll start new posts

[dehne]

every 90 that ive had has the green light cover

[Anthony Miller]

Here's some gold for you...   http://alfaromeo90.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/welcome-to-my-humble-blog.html

This is a blog from a guy that was a member here for a short while, but he deleted his account when someone pissed him off.  He actually had some good posts on here, with some different pics that are on the blog, but I think the pics have been deleted from his posts as they were linked to a photobucket account which was also deleted.  Shame, as he seemed to know what he was talking about.

His forum tag was Typhoon90, you can search for them by going to your favourite search engine (as long as it's Google) and typing in "site:alfaclubvic.org.au" (without quotes) and then whatever you want to search for.  "Typhoon90' turns up a few I've noticed.

He did a bit of bodywork on the rear of his 90, and his blog has some pics of his 90 with all trim removed around the back, including those C-pillar trims.  His bodywork seems to be pretty good, but his paintwork is about a 6/10 (but far better than I could ever hope to do).  I know, because I recently bought his car.  It was getting water into the boot, but I've traced that to a blocked fuel filler drain (the guy I bought it off, the guy who bought it off Typhoon90, took it through the outback, I guess it got clogged with dust).

Good luck with your repairs, that looks like a nasty place to fix, I hope it isn't.  I've got some tiny bubbles appearing just under the fuel filler on this white one, due no doubt to the blocked drain as well, I'm hoping it's an easy fix.  I've also got some rust on the bottom of the doors, also due to blocked drains there.  You've had many Alfas, I'm sure I don't need to tell you to ensure that all drainage points are clear.

I last saw Typhoon 90(Andrew) on alfaromeo75.co.uk

[Beatle]

Just following up on this topic.   

I failed rego for rusty B pillars so I've stripped the sill trims in preparation for repairs.   While I was in the mood I also stripped out the interior to give it a good clean, inspection, and ultimately rustproofing.
I'll also take the opportunity to remove and repair the headliner.  Carpets and boot liners were washed today.

There area  couple of other small rust spots I'll attend to including those under the C-pillar trims.  With the inner C pillar trim removed I can actually see the see the back of the two upper plastic lugs/clips, and from the boot access to the back of the lower two clips.  It helps to pull the antenna (LHS) and drop the fuel filler boot (RHS)

There is no way to pull these external trim pieces off from the outside without damaging the covers, so I'll be cutting the backs off the clips from the inside.  Hopefully I'll be able to find a suitable replacement clip.  It looks like the upper forward clip is different to the other three.

For those with 90s, now is a good time to probe your sills to remove built up crud.  I got about 4 cupfulls of dirt out of one of mine. Open up all the drains, pull the bungs along the inner sill walls and either blow or hose them out.   There are gaps at the trailing edges of the sills, filled with a small rubber flap on pinchweld.  The fronts are also open and covered by the plastic splashguard in the wheelarch. 

Pull the rear rubber flaps and jack the front up so the sills are angled down, and this should help get the dirt out.

Another point of interest is at the lower front edge of the outer rear wheelarch.  One side of mine had an open drain formed by an incomplete panel join.  However the other side, the rusty side, had no panel gap, so no drain point.  5 min with a screwdriver opened it up and I blew back into the cavity with the airgun to ensure it's fully open.  I'll fill it with rustproofer later on.

[four90s]

Two brown and four green. (Light covers that is)

The C pillar panels are a major pita to get off. They aren't plastic, they are metal and they have the three pins and mastic. I've bent all of the ones I've taken off, but I think that they would be able to be straightened.

Steve
Adelaide

[VeeSix]

1st series digital dash 90s got the green interior light covers, Supers got the brown ones 

[Beatle]

UPDATE:   Managed to remove one C-pillar cover.  What a bastard of a job........   I'm not touching the other side.

For the record:
- The covers are aluminium = very soft
- four fasteners hold them in place.  One plastic plug at the very top/fwd.  The other three are plastic inserts in the body which accept the aluminium 'pins' on the panel, with one-way metal push washers to make sure they can't be readily removed. By the looks of the design, these things were never meant to be removed.
- The pins can easily unstick from the panel  .  They look to have been soldered in place.
- The 75 instructions tell you to heat the area, presumably to soften a mastic which helps retain the panel.  Well, the 90 panels are held in place with decidedly solid adhesive.  It's set like rubber so no amount of heat would help. 
- The only way I can see to get these panels off without bending/damage would be to run a length of piano wire through the gap and work it around the lower three pins to cut the rubber through all the way to the pins.  Risk would be cutting through the pins, or damaging the surrounding bodywork.  I cut the back off the plastic inserts then tried pushing on the pins to get the panel off.  All that did was form a raised pimple on the panel at each of the pin positions.

So all in all, a really crappy day has been had dismantling the car.  Found some more rust, though not too bad this time.   

If anyone ever tells you the 90 is less rust prone than earlier Alfas, they are either lying, naive, or haven't really looked.  

PS:  I did manage to pull the headliner out with no dramas.  Interior is stripped save for the dash and drivers seat so the panel came out readily via a front door.  No bending required.

[Beatle]

Pics of the panel

[Beatle]

More pics............

[Beatle]

Couldn't resist temptation so took my own advice and used thick whipper-snipper cord fed through the cover to saw around the sealant of the lower three pins.  This made a huuuuuuge difference to the hold of the panel to the body and a little careful levering with some plastic tools got the RH cover off undamaged.

I now need to devise a method of reattachment as the pins are of a type I've never seen.