Another GTV6 won't start issue

[Albygtv]

Hi everyone,

I've got the fairly common GTV6 won't start issue and have got to the point where I'm stuck and hoping someone has that spark of inspiration that will get this working. I should say I have read every thread I can find on these sort of problems and have followed much of the advice as described below.

Drove the car home a week or so ago. It was running great and I really enjoyed the drive. Parked it and went back next day for another drive. Car kicked a few times, seemed like it was about to catch but then died. No amount of turning it over since, at different times and with different throttle positions, has coaxed it in to any kicking whatsoever.

Have confirmed the fuel pump is working by the hold air flap open method. Can clearly hear pump going and can feel some vibration in some hoses. Interestingly, most vibration in return hose, hardly any in delivery hose. Removed delivery hose and with end pointed into large bottle, did it again. Sure enough, fuel came out continuosly, although not under as much pressure as I expected.

Turned to spark. Put 5 new plugs in just to be sure (have yet to make plug remover for 6th plug). Put timing light on and turned engine over. Timing light flashes as supposed to, so there must be some spark. Not sure how strong it is though, because I also tried taking plug leads off as engine was turning over and didn't feel the slightest kick.

Stuck voltmeter on various fuses and leads and all seemed fine with one possible exception. The green lead to the positive on the coil showed 12 volts when pulled off the coil and connected straight to the voltmeter, but only half that when actually connected to the coil. No idea what this proves other than maybe its a sign that the coil is kaput.

So, now I'm stuck. I know its getting fuel, but not convinced its getting enough. I also know its getting spark but also not convinced its enough. And maybe its something altogether different. I'm considering going and buying a coil, fuel pump and filter and replacing all of them, but would rather not waste the money if possible.

Can anyone suggest what to try next?

Cheers, Alby

[dehne]

Hi there
Spray some start you bastard through the intake, and see what happens, sometime that will give enough to kick it, also maybe you have a bad batch of fuel that have blocked the injectors, try the spray first and let us know what happens.

[Albygtv]

Thanks Dehne. Good idea. I will try this but not till late tomorrow as I haven't got any Start you Bastard here. Will let you know what happens. Cheers

[colcol]

Get a spark plug and connect it to a spark plug lead, and kick the engine over, and see if the spark plug has a spark, also the volts going to the coil is never the full 12 volts, if you have a resister coil, when the starter motor is kicking over and say has reduced the battery to 10 volts, then the coil will be giving a big fat spark to start the engine, when the engine is running the resister will cut down the volts to the coil to say 8 volts, if it ran 12 volts, you would burn the coil out, after you kick the engine over take out a spark plug and see if it is wet, if it is you don't have a spark to set fire to it, if the spark plug is dry, then you have no fuel to start the fire, Colin.

[Albygtv]

Hey thanks colcol. That's a very clear description of a few things that will help me narrow down the diagnosis. I never new that about coils- very interesting. So, tomorrow evening I'll try out your spark plug methods, followed by some Start you bastard if it still seems applicable, and hopefully end up with a better picture of what's going on. Will report back then. Cheers

[aggie57]

How long since the fuel filter was changed?  Clogged filter is a common cause of hard start on these cars.

[Albygtv]

No idea Alister

[Cool Jesus]

Hey Alby, there's plenty of suggestions on this hyper-link that may assist. Make sure you post your diagnosis and hopeful resolution.

http://www.alfagtv6.com/discus/messages/200/592.html?0

[Albygtv]

No idea Alister. I only recently bought the car. If the other suggestions don't show anything I'll try changing the filter. The one on there at the moment is one of those you can't see into, so changing it is the only option. Sounds cheaper to try than a fuel pump so it'll be the next item on my list.

Lots of great suggestions. I love alfa forums - they are one of the reasons I felt comfortable buying a car I didn't know that much about. Great stuff & thank you all.

[aggie57]

Yeah Alby - much cheaper than a pump!  The filter is a regular service item but its often an out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing.  Very easy to replace and if you do cut it open.  You may be unpleasantly surprised at the c..p in there.

[Al Campbell]

To test your coil: disconnect wires from all but one terminal and measure the resistance with your ohmmeter. I've attached the specs from the 1985 ALFA workshop manual, hopefully your coils is listed. if not then at least you should be in a similar range.



Also I had a sticky AFM flap once. Pump would run when flap held open by hand, but would stick shut when cranking and pump wouldn't go. Symptom was fire from CSI fuel then die.  Took a while to notice that. Pulled the sucker out and gave it a thorough clean.

Good Luck,
Al.

[Sheldon McIntosh]

No idea Alister. I only recently bought the car. If the other suggestions don't show anything I'll try changing the filter. The one on there at the moment is one of those you can't see into, so changing it is the only option. Sounds cheaper to try than a fuel pump so it'll be the next item on my list.

Always a good idea to put on a fresh one, but you can check it in the meantime by whacking it on the ground a few times.  It usually loosens things up a bit.  Then see how dirty the fuel is that runs out.  A good way to confirm or eliminate it.

In my experience a clogged filter has led to either bad running, or firing but running only for a few seconds, rather then no kick at all.

[Albygtv]

Thanks Everybody for lots of great suggestions. Now just need to find the time to work my way through them all. Got home late tonight and the car is in an awkward spot on the street, so really can only do much while there's decent light. Had bought some Start You Bastard at lunchtime, so thought I had time to give that a quick try. Took off the inlet hose and squirted into the plenum. Put back the hose and gave it a try. No difference. Tried again with a bigger squirt and still no kick whatsoever.
So, thinking that this proved the problem was spark I tried the next trick suggested of taking a lead off and putting a spare spark plug into it and seeing if it sparked on turnover. This would surely prove the case . No such luck. the arriving dark showed the plug was sparking away quite nicely, at least until the battery decided I'd punished it enough for today. So, there's definately spark and Start You Bastard makes no difference, suggesting its not fuel.
Will have to think about that until I can get home earlier and have a better run at it to try some of the other suggestions.
Cheers

[colcol]

Take off the fuel line coming out of the fuel filter, and put another line from the fuel filter into a clear say 4 litre bottle, and have a fire extinguisher handy and switch on the ignition, you should hear the electric fuel pump run, and hopefully spit out some fuel into the container, if no sound, check fuel pump relay and fuse, if pump running, and no fuel, check for blocked fuel filter, if fuel filter is new or not blocked check fuel pickup in tank, it may be covered with rubbish or rust, and not picking up fuel, if you take out filter, you should be able to blow thru it with your mouth, before removing fuel filter lines, you will have to depressure them, remove fuel pump fuse or relay, and try and start the car, the fuel pressure in the lines will drop, and you will be able to undo the lines without being sprayed in petrol, Colin.

[Anthony Miller]

Check the connectors to the sensors on the thermostat housing, can't remember what they are called but if faulty she won't start. I had a similar prob where car was running fine and then stopped and wouldn't start, turned out to be a dodgy connection to the sensor causing it to run full rich.