Air Conditioner Parts

[Duk]

Part of my Project 75 includes using a bigger air conditioner condenser (just because I have 1, it's from a Mazda Familia GTX). Now I need to adapt the Mazda A/C condenser to the Alfa's original A/C hoses, dryer and compressor.
Does anybody have any suggestions for online A/C parts suppliers?
Does anybody know what compressor and dry the (1990) V6 75's used?

[scuzzyGTV]

Hi Duk
Quick note before you go down this path, check the original refrigerant type for the 75 (suspect R12), as it's most likely now banned, and different refrigerants have different affects on seals & o-rings etc. If it were me, I'd be looking at new equipment, for current auto refrigerants. I know R134A is a replacement for R12, but it's also likely to be NLA in the mid term.
HTH
Scott.

[Duk]

Cheers Scott.

[shiny_car]

Duk, from memory the factory compressor is a Sanden 508. The receiver-dryer is nothing peculiar from what I can gather. The terminal/valve for the trinary switch is male (to suit the female trinary switch).

I bookmarked this AC store for reference, but please note I have not bought from them, so cannot vouch for their service or products. However, they may be able to help you: http://www.australianautoair.com.au/index.htm

I've also read mention of ER12 LPG based gas, which is supposedly more effective than R134. But again, unsure about details and compatibility or availability. My 75 had an 'Isceon 49' sticker on it, which from quick research is an R12 replacement without the 'environmentally unfriendly' HFC.

[colcol]

Seeing you are sticking with the Sanden 508 compressor, you will be using R12 or similar, for R12, you will use taper fittings for sealing and R12 hoses, you will need a R12 Thermostatic Expansion Valve, as an R134 has a different heat range, and you will have to use a R12 Receiver Dryer, the Condensor and Evaporator are basically heat exchangers and they will work on either gas, just as long as you can hook up the fittings, if you decide to go with R134, you will need a new Compressor, Thermostatic Expansion Valve, Receiver Dryer, 'o' ring fittings on all the joints, new R134 Hoses and P.A.G. Oil, [horribly expensive], i would have the compressor checked for compression and leaks before going ahead with it, Colin.

[Duk]

Thanks a lot, Col 

[Duk]

Silly question time.
Any reason why I can't use AN type fittings and Teflon hose?

[colcol]

If we are still talking air conditioner hoses, then its because the fittings are mostly still imperial, cause the auto air conditioning industry started off in America, and everything is geared towards those type of fittings, and the hoses have to be a special type that doesn't leak refrigerant gas thru the hose, and the hose won't react or perish when in contact with the gases and PAG oils, Colin.

[oz3litre]

I've also read mention of ER12 LPG based gas, which is supposedly more effective than R134. But again, unsure about details and compatibility or availability. My 75 had an 'Isceon 49' sticker on it, which from quick research is an R12 replacement without the 'environmentally unfriendly' HFC.

ER12 is definitely more effective than R134 in these systems. My 75 is very cold using that and the 164 also works very well with it. What has been said about TX valves is vital. Generic R134 valves will not work in the old system. My brother's 164 is a good example. It has a new compressor and everything else is perfect, but it has a generic TX valve and works no better than having a window open. My 164 has the correct valve and is nice and cold. Don't let aircon guys tell you that ER12 is dangerous, because it isn't, (I have read an exhaustive CSIRO report that says it is safe), or that R134 will work in your old system, because it won't. Find a guy who is happy to put ER12 in it and you will be fine and it will cost you a lot less money. As I understand it from my research, R134 is being phased out in favour of hydrocarbon based gas because it is more dangerous to the environment. Hydrocarbon refrigerants are way more efficient and are a drop in replacement in any system as far as I know. They don't require special oil either.

[scuzzyGTV]

and are a drop in replacement in any system as far as I know

This isn't correct, as different refrigerants operate at different pressures, and will condense/boil under different conditions.

[Duk]

Cheers Oz  .
Any word on what TX valve your 75 uses or is it the original 1?

Col. only asked about using AN fittings because the hoses are the same sizes as AN (imperial) sizes. My logic was that I would be able to use AN fittings and save myself some F-ing around by being able to make my own hoses.
Aeroquip and another mob here in Australia make their own fittings that work with stainless steel braided nylon hose that are assembled like some AN fittings (nut and olive style), but work with more traditional style hard mounting points, rather than the tapered seat, seal-less points.
I'm not going to go that way, though.

[oz3litre]

Cheers Oz  .
Any word on what TX valve your 75 uses or is it the original 1?

It is the original as far as I know. The system on my old, now burnt out, Potenziata worked very well with the ER12 as well. I haven't looked into replacement ones for the 75 yet, because I haven't needed one, but going by the experience with my brother's 164 I would make sure I got the correct one for it. I certainly wouldn't bother converting to R134 with all the expense and trouble involved, in view of the fact that it is apparently more expensive than ER12 now and is being phased out.

[colcol]

Old air conditioning systems for R12 refrigerant, that is pre 1992, use tapered seat fittings, as R12 is more dense and leaks less, however R134 is very fine and finds small leaks, therefore  the hose fittings have to have green colored refrigerant o ring fittings, R134 is not being phased out yet, all the cars made between 1992 and 2015 will stil use it, there is a new refrigerant coming out next year that is even more expensive than R 134, and it has a short life when released into the atmosphere, so it damages the ozone layer for only a few years, compared to R134 a few hundred years, compared to R12 a few thousand years, i did a post on the new refrigerant a few months ago in General Discussion, R134 operates at a higher pressure and temperature than R12, therefore  you need different Thermostatic Expansion Valves [TX], Colin.

[oz3litre]

I should have said LPG based refrigerants earlier, not HFC. Sorry about that. The reports attached to my previous post are the ones I found on these gasses. They provide interesting info about the old R12 and the R134 as well.  I can't recall where I saw the article about the new LPG based refrigerants being a drop in replacement. I will stick to using ER12 in the 75 because I know it works very well to the point that it can even get too cold. Unfortunately at present I can't use the aircon because the blower motor has seized and it is a dash out job to fix it.

[GTVeloce]

Oz, they were some great articles! Especially 'Er12 Info' - it answered a number of my questions. I have bought a couple of cans of HyChill HR12 to fit in both my 75 and GTV (which runs a TS compressor). Both have been running R134a but I am keen to try something else. I am also keen to find a replacement condenser from a later model car (larger but thinner) that will fit. Has anyone managed to do something similar yet?