New technology cam belts

[colcol]

In the AGE motoring liftout, Drive, they did a review of the new 7th generation Golf, to qoute the article," TIMING BELTS, The Golf 7 petrol engines switch from a timing chain to a belt. Timing belts are known as costly service items, [some cars replace at 60,000 kilometres or 90,000 kilometres because of the labour involved. However Volkswagon claims new technology means the Golf 7's timing belt will last 210,000 kilometres before it needs to be changed or checked every 30,000 kilometres until 300,000 kilometres, when it must be replaced. The timing belt in the Golf 7's diesel engine must be changed at 210,000 kilometres".
This sounds like the load of rubbish that Volkswagon told us about 10 years ago on the Golf and Passats, saying that they would last 100,000 Kilometres, and then with a lot of ruined engines, they reduced it back to 60,000 kilometres.
When Alfa Romeo released the 147 and 156 twin sparks, the belt replacement was 4 years or 60,000 kilometres, when they had all the cam belt failures under warranty, they quickly reduced it to 50,000 kilometres or 3 years.
Alfa Romeo were saying that the belts would last longer, but they had to be inspected every 50,000 kilometres or 3 years, and if ok, could be put back, but the labour involved in removing the belt, inspecting it and putting it back on, you would be much better just putting on a new belt, belt inspections, what a crock, don't beleive it for a second, Colin.

[TFJ100]

I read this as well. I was quite impressed until I read your historical context, colcol.

BTW - I admitted defeat and changed my GTV V6 cambelt last week after 6 years...is that a record?

Torben

[John Hanslow]

Brave man Torben !

I read that artice as well.  Seems a bit optimistic.

If there is new technology out there it may take a few years to reach the aftermarket for us and our 156/147 and other modern alfas.

[colcol]

Hey Torben, i have a rello who purchased a twin spark 147, 2001 model, guy who owned it never changed the cam belt, may not have known about such issues, it got changed last year, thats right 10 years on the same cambelt, my original car, a 74 Passat, i changed the belt after 17 years, it was a non interference type motor, when the belt went, the engine stopped, Alfa Romeo's are a interference motor and when the cambelt breaks, so does the motor, who will be brave enough to use the new technology cam belts and run them to 210,000 kilometers in their 147's & 156's, [not me], Colin.

[TFJ100]

I don't know how brave in reality...15,000km in 6 years plus Bruno inspecting regularly. It probably could have gone longer, but at a certain point you pass the tipping point between sensible and risky. I may be careful with my pennies but not completely daft!

[Steve S]

In the mid '90s Toyota had a 100,000km interval on their cambelts. They never had a problem making 100k and a few years later they extended that interval to 150,000km and did nothing to the engine. Most of their engines are non interference so there is little risk; I've seen some go well over 150k on a cambelt too. That was 10 years ago. I'd say someone can make a belt last 210,000km these days no problem. Remember they can put a time limit on them too, so any sort of mileage that high will need to be done in a short period which will most likely mean the car will be driving long distance in a high gear on average.

Cambelts use to be made of neoprene, then "high temp neoprene" and now (or 10 years ago) nitrile. They have also modified the tooth profile for the better. The main issue with belts is contamination. If you can keep the contaminants out the belt will last a lot longer. That's the point of an inspection, just to see if anything has leaked.

The cambelt on the Fiat derived twin spark engine is an odd case as the other engines in the family have much longer intervals. The 5 cylinder Fiat engines built since 1996 have a 120km interval and have few problems. I've sen low mileage examples last 10 years!

Fiat and Alfa of the past have about the highest cambelt failure rate and lowest interval in the business. 3 years and 60k on a belt is appallingly short by industry standards. I think it depends which pair of eyes you look through.

[wankski]

of course none of this discussion touches on the propensity for the tensioner to fail long before the belt...

at least in the 6s.

tensioners have always been the issue with the arese v6 engines, first the hydro unit in the gtv6, and even now with the more reliable, but must be checked mechanical...

[alfagtv152]

Hi Guys,
I went to my favorite parts supplier the other day to get a cam belt and he brought out-cam belt,tensioner,idler pulley and water pump saying that when people have the belts replaced by a mechanic it pays to do all of it at once while they are in there. Makes sense but I wasn't expecting nearly $500 worth of parts.Since I am doing it I didn't replace the water pump,checked the idler was a good metal one and replaced the tensioner and timing belt +drive belt.The 166 has done 60K since the last belt as best I can find out,the service record says it had it's first cam belt at 120k which is what I read in the service recomendations,the belt looked really good but some of the plastic parts on the tensioner looked a little out of shape.
Cheers
Andrew

[lombardi]

This timing Belt issue is keeping Alfa mechanics in business,depending on models, costs can be from $900 to $2,500,this is definitely one of the major drawbacks from owning a late model Alfa,it's
really an extra cost that never ends and as labour costs go up ,you guessed it,only way is up, and yes the intervals of changing this part is just not right,especially in this day and age of new materials and updated technology, I myself will never own another car brand,but i can understand why Alfa in this country has a negative reputation. 

[Davidm1600]

Of course part of the problem is that these things are not just confined to modern Alfas. Many new cars have such belts, lambda sensors, suspension issues etc. From my experience the key is to keep the maintenance up and purchase parts from overseas suppliers. EB spares is one such supplier. What needs to happen is that the motoring journos need to do is be truthful regarding the costs associated with all modern cars. Bias against Alfas is not warranted in most cases.